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Obituary | Nancy McDonald of Tulsa, Oklahoma | Stanleys Funeral &amp; Cremation Service

3959 E 31st St
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Nancy McDonald of Tulsa, Oklahoma
June 4, 1936 - October 24, 2023
Nancy McDonald, a longtime Tulsa community volunteer and activist, died Tuesday. She was 87. A celebration of life will be held at 4 p.m. Nov. 12 at All Souls
Unitarian Church, with a reception to follow. Per McDonald’s wishes, her family invites everyone attending the reception to bring homemade cookies.
Known for her vision and tenacity, McDonald was a force for change in Tulsa for well over 50 years, embracing a variety of causes including public school integration,
the arts and LGBTQ rights.
Notably with the latter, her influence extended throughout Oklahoma and beyond.
McDonald and her husband, Joe, were the founders of the Tulsa chapter of Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, the first in Oklahoma, and she later
served as president of the national PFLAG organization. It was during her tenure as president, in 1998, that the organization extended its mission to include
transgender people.

McDonald was active on a state and national level in promoting legislation that advanced LGBTQ rights. And when a proposed law threatened that advancement, she
was there to fight it. That included testifying before Congress in 1996 in opposition to the federal Defense of Marriage Act.
Toby Jenkins, former director of Oklahomans for Equality, said McDonald was a source of needed encouragement for her fellow LGBTQ rights advocates, assuring
them that “incrementally, bit by bit, relationships would form and change would come.”
“Nancy taught us to show respect and civility to everyone, even if they were hateful to you,” Jenkins said. “If they spoke that way, she believed it was just that their
hearts and minds had not been opened or challenged. Eventually the change of heart would come. I will miss that most about her.”
A Nebraska native and graduate of the University of Nebraska, McDonald moved to Tulsa with her family in 1966. She didn’t waste any time getting involved in her
new community.
As a parent of school-age children and PTA member, she joined a small group of Tulsa Public Schools parents in helping with voluntary integration, starting with
Burroughs Elementary School.
Then, in 1973, district officials turned to McDonald to help integrate Booker T. Washington High School.
Chairing a committee for volunteer recruitment, McDonald led the successful effort to recruit white student volunteers to attend the previously all-Black school,
holding a series of meetings with students and parents.
Her volunteering led to a full-time job with TPS, coordinating volunteers and leading the further development of the magnet school concept.
Motivating more community volunteers to get involved in their public schools was at the heart of McDonald’s love for the Partners in Education program. She
participated in a related White House Symposium and wrote the guidelines for PIE groups that were published as a book. She remained involved with PIE through the
end of her life.
McDonald was also passionate about scouting. She was a former board member and president of the Girl Scouts of Eastern Oklahoma. In that role, she helped guide
the organization through the tumultuous time following the 1977 murders of three girls at summer camp.
McDonald was recipient of a number of honors and awards. They included induction into the Tulsa Hall of Fame and the dedication of the Nancy &amp; Joe McDonald
Rainbow Library in her and her husband’s honor at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center.
McDonald’s commitment to the LGBTQ cause began in the 1980s when one of her daughters came out as a lesbian.
The experience of supporting her daughter would shape McDonald, and later she became a mother figure to many LGBTQ people who found themselves facing
alienation from friends and family.
“We called her ‘everybody’s mother,’” Jenkins said. “She was a surrogate parent for so many whose families had rejected them or had not accepted or understood
them. There are national LGBTQ leaders who came out of Oklahoma who Nancy mentored about family relationships.”
And her motherly influence didn’t end with the LGBTQ community, Jenkins said.
“If anyone was marginalized, it became her cause,” he said.
Morva McDonald, McDonald’s daughter, said her mother was “just so good at seeing every individual.”
“At her core, she was always trying her best to help people be seen, be recognized for who they were. And that’s what allowed her to reach across so many different
(tel:9187436271)
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Obituary | Nancy McDonald of Tulsa, Oklahoma | Stanleys Funeral &amp; Cremation Service

“The issue for her was always helping people be seen. It was a tremendous gift.”
For her mother, part of valuing people as individuals included helping them find ways to participate, Morva added.
“That’s why we’re asking people to bring homemade cookies to the reception. It was her idea. Baking was a favorite activity of Mom’s with her grandchildren.
“Even at the end she was thinking about how everyone could share and participate.”
McDonald’s survivors include her husband, Joe McDonald; four children, JoElyn Newcomb, Paul McDonald, Jason McDonald and Morva McDonald; eight
grandchildren; a brother, Howard Nellor; and a sister, Sharlene Clatanoff.
Memorial donations may be made to the Foundation for Tulsa Schools’ Partners in Education program.

Services
Celebration of Life
Sunday, November 12, 2023

4:00 PM

All Souls Unitarian Church
2952 S. Peoria Ave
Tulsa, OK 74114
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              <text>(/) 3959 E 31st St&lt;br /&gt;Tulsa, OK 74135&lt;br /&gt;918-743-6271 (tel:1-918-743-6271)&lt;br /&gt;Share this obituary&lt;br /&gt; (mailto:?subject=Obituary for Nancy&lt;br /&gt;McDonald&amp;amp;body=Obituary%20for%20Nancy%20%20McDonald%0A%0AView%20details%20at%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.stanleysfuneralhome.com%2Fobituary%2Fnancymcdonald%0A%0ABrought%20to%20you%20by%20Stanleys%20Funeral%20%26%20Cremation%20Service%0Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.stanleysfuneralhome.com)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(tel:9187436271) Privacy - Terms&lt;br /&gt;2/6/25, 3:31 PM Obituary | Nancy McDonald of Tulsa, Oklahoma | Stanleys Funeral &amp;amp; Cremation Service&lt;br /&gt;https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/obituary/nancy-mcdonald 1/4&lt;br /&gt; Sign Guestbook  View Guestbook Entries (/guestbook/8721811)&lt;br /&gt; Print Obituary (/obituaries/print?o_id=8721811)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Nancy McDonald of Tulsa, Oklahoma&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;June 4, 1936 - October 24, 2023&lt;br /&gt;Nancy McDonald, a longtime Tulsa community volunteer and activist, died Tuesday. She was 87. A celebration of life will be held at 4 p.m. Nov. 12 at All Souls Unitarian Church, with a reception to follow. Per McDonald’s wishes, her family invites everyone attending the reception to bring homemade cookies.&lt;br /&gt;Known for her vision and tenacity, McDonald was a force for change in Tulsa for well over 50 years, embracing a variety of causes including public school integration, the arts and LGBTQ rights.&lt;br /&gt;Notably with the latter, her inuence extended throughout Oklahoma and beyond.&lt;br /&gt;McDonald and her husband, Joe, were the founders of the Tulsa chapter of Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, the rst in Oklahoma, and she later served as president of the national PFLAG organization. It was during her tenure as president, in 1998, that the organization extended its mission to include transgender people.&lt;br /&gt;McDonald was active on a state and national level in promoting legislation that advanced LGBTQ rights. And when a proposed law threatened that advancement, she was there to ght it. That included testifying before Congress in 1996 in opposition to the federal Defense of Marriage Act.&lt;br /&gt;Toby Jenkins, former director of Oklahomans for Equality, said McDonald was a source of needed encouragement for her fellow LGBTQ rights advocates, assuring them that “incrementally, bit by bit, relationships would form and change would come.”&lt;br /&gt;“Nancy taught us to show respect and civility to everyone, even if they were hateful to you,” Jenkins said. “If they spoke that way, she believed it was just that their hearts and minds had not been opened or challenged. Eventually the change of heart would come. I will miss that most about her.”&lt;br /&gt;A Nebraska native and graduate of the University of Nebraska, McDonald moved to Tulsa with her family in 1966. She didn’t waste any time getting involved in her new community.&lt;br /&gt;As a parent of school-age children and PTA member, she joined a small group of Tulsa Public Schools parents in helping with voluntary integration, starting with Burroughs Elementary School.&lt;br /&gt;Then, in 1973, district ocials turned to McDonald to help integrate Booker T. Washington High School.&lt;br /&gt;Chairing a committee for volunteer recruitment, McDonald led the successful eort to recruit white student volunteers to attend the previously all-Black school, holding a series of meetings with students and parents.&lt;br /&gt;Her volunteering led to a full-time job with TPS, coordinating volunteers and leading the further development of the magnet school concept.&lt;br /&gt;Motivating more community volunteers to get involved in their public schools was at the heart of McDonald’s love for the Partners in Education program. She participated in a related White House Symposium and wrote the guidelines for PIE groups that were published as a book. She remained involved with PIE through the end of her life.&lt;br /&gt;McDonald was also passionate about scouting. She was a former board member and president of the Girl Scouts of Eastern Oklahoma. In that role, she helped guide the organization through the tumultuous time following the 1977 murders of three girls at summer camp.&lt;br /&gt;McDonald was recipient of a number of honors and awards. They included induction into the Tulsa Hall of Fame and the dedication of the Nancy &amp;amp; Joe McDonald Rainbow Library in her and her husband’s honor at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center.&lt;br /&gt;McDonald’s commitment to the LGBTQ cause began in the 1980s when one of her daughters came out as a lesbian.&lt;br /&gt;The experience of supporting her daughter would shape McDonald, and later she became a mother gure to many LGBTQ people who found themselves facing alienation from friends and family.&lt;br /&gt;“We called her ‘everybody’s mother,’” Jenkins said. “She was a surrogate parent for so many whose families had rejected them or had not accepted or understood them. There are national LGBTQ leaders who came out of Oklahoma who Nancy mentored about family relationships.”&lt;br /&gt;And her motherly inuence didn’t end with the LGBTQ community, Jenkins said.&lt;br /&gt;“If anyone was marginalized, it became her cause,” he said.&lt;br /&gt;Morva McDonald, McDonald’s daughter, said her mother was “just so good at seeing every individual.”&lt;br /&gt;“At her core, she was always trying her best to help people be seen, be recognized for who they were. And that’s what allowed her to reach across so many different causes and arenas.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;SEND A CARD&lt;br /&gt;Show Your Sympathy to the Family&lt;br /&gt;(https://www.stmcdonald/cardscampaign=obitucards-ctaleftside)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;SEND FLOWERS&lt;br /&gt;Order Flowers for the Family&lt;br /&gt;(https://www.stmcdonald/flowercampaign=obituowers-ctaleftside)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(tel:9187436271)&lt;br /&gt;2/6/25, 3:31 PM Obituary | Nancy McDonald of Tulsa, Oklahoma | Stanleys Funeral &amp;amp; Cremation Service&lt;br /&gt;https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/obituary/nancy-mcdonald 2/4&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“The issue for her was always helping people be seen. It was a tremendous gift.”&lt;br /&gt;For her mother, part of valuing people as individuals included helping them nd ways to participate, Morva added.&lt;br /&gt;“That’s why we’re asking people to bring homemade cookies to the reception. It was her idea. Baking was a favorite activity of Mom’s with her grandchildren.&lt;br /&gt;“Even at the end she was thinking about how everyone could share and participate.”&lt;br /&gt;McDonald’s survivors include her husband, Joe McDonald; four children, JoElyn Newcomb, Paul McDonald, Jason McDonald and Morva McDonald; eight sgrandchildren; a brother, Howard Nellor; and a sister, Sharlene Clatano.&lt;br /&gt;Memorial donations may be made to the Foundation for Tulsa Schools’ Partners in Education program.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Services&lt;br /&gt;Celebration of Life&lt;br /&gt;Sunday, November 12, 2023&lt;br /&gt;4:00 PM&lt;br /&gt;All Souls Unitarian Church&lt;br /&gt;2952 S. Peoria Ave&lt;br /&gt;Tulsa, OK 74114&lt;br /&gt; Open Google Maps&lt;br /&gt; Email Details (mailto:?subject=Celebration%20of%20Life for NancyMcDonald&amp;amp;body=Celebration%20of%20Life%20for%20Nancy%20%20McDonald%0A%0ASunday%)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sign Guestbook&lt;br /&gt;Name:  Name (required)&lt;br /&gt;Location: Location&lt;br /&gt;Video: Link to Video (Youtube or Vimeo)&lt;br /&gt;Image: Choose File No File chosen&lt;br /&gt;Light A Candle Candle 1 Candle 2 Candle 3 Candle 4&lt;br /&gt;Email:  Email (required)&lt;br /&gt;Personal Message:  Personal Message (required)&lt;br /&gt;Confirm: &lt;br /&gt;(tel:9187436271)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2/6/25, 3:31 PM Obituary | Nancy McDonald of Tulsa, Oklahoma | Stanleys Funeral &amp;amp; Cremation Service&lt;br /&gt;https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/obituary/nancy-mcdonald 3/4&lt;br /&gt;reCAPTCHA&lt;br /&gt;I'm not a robot&lt;br /&gt;Privacy - Terms&lt;br /&gt;Submit Guestbook entry&lt;br /&gt;3959 E 31st St Tulsa, OK 74135&lt;br /&gt; 918-743-6271 (tel:918-743-6271)  918-743-5790&lt;br /&gt; Join our mailing list (/subscribe)  info@stanleysfuneralhome.com (mailto:info@stanleysfuneralhome.com)&lt;br /&gt;© Copyright 2019 - 25 Stanleys Funeral &amp;amp; Cremation Service. All Rights Reserved. | Funeral Home Website by Batesville® (https://www.batesvilletechnology.com) |&lt;br /&gt;Funeral Planning and Grief Resources (https://www.batesville.com/for-families/) |Terms of Use (https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/conditions) | Privacy Policy&lt;br /&gt;(https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/privacy)&lt;br /&gt;Home (https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/) | About Us (https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/about-us) | Cremation&lt;br /&gt;(https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/section/cremation) | Burial (https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/section/burial) | Veterans&lt;br /&gt;(https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/section/veterans) | Obituaries (https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/obits) | Contact &amp;amp; Location&lt;br /&gt;(https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/section/contact-location) | Blog (https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/section/blog) |  Admin (/admin)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(tel:9187436271)&lt;br /&gt;2/6/25, 3:31 PM Obituary | Nancy McDonald of Tulsa, Oklahoma | Stanleys Funeral &amp;amp; Cremation Service&lt;br /&gt;https://www.stanleysfuneralhome.com/obituary/nancy-mcdonald 4/4</text>
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garykelleyafs.com/obituaries/print?o_id=9040539

Gary Kelley’s Add’Vantage Funeral Service
Dwight Alan Kealiher
( August 27, 1937 - August 15, 2024 )

Dwight Alan Kealiher, 86, certified public accountant and resident of
Tulsa, Oklahoma passed away Thursday, August 15, 2024. He was born
Friday, August 27, 1937 in Checotah, Oklahoma to Paul Kealiher and
Zadee (Wessinger) Kealiher.
Memorial service 1:00 p.m. Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at All Souls
Unitarian Church, 2952 South Peoria, Tulsa, Oklahoma.

https://www.garykelleyafs.com/obituaries/print?o_id=9040539

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                    <text>1/31/25, 2:25 PM

Robert Cisar Obituary (2006) - Tulsa, OK - Tulsa World

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Robert S Cisar Jr.
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Robert Cisar Obituary

C

ISAR -- Robert S., Jr., began his life's journey February 18, 1942 in Oklahoma City. His "fabulous"
journey ended Friday, March 10, 2006, in Tulsa, OK which had been his home since the early

1970s. Robert was preceded in death by, his loving parents, Zelma and Dr. Robert S. Cisar, Sr. He is
survived by: his life partner of 21 years, Kirk Holt; cousins, John and Jim McArdle and their families of
Tucson and Phoenix, AZ; 3 cousins, on the west coast; and lifetime friend, Paul Thomas and his family
of Oklahoma City. Robert also leaves many wonderful friends who traveled with him as he made his
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/tulsaworld/name/robert-cisar-obituary?id=6865448

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�1/31/25, 2:25 PM

Robert Cisar Obituary (2006) - Tulsa, OK - Tulsa World

life's journey. During his brief illness, Robert was able to celebrate his life with those he dearly loved.
After serving in the Army and a tour in Vietnam where he was a Surgical Nurse, Robert started interior
home painting, then paper hanging, then home remodeling before realizing that he had a gift for
interior design. Thus evolved into his and Kirk's business, Cisar-Holt, Inc. He loved his work and
cherished the relationships they made with their many clients across the United States and abroad
over the years. Robert will be remembered and celebrated as a man who loved life, as a humanitarian, a
man of vision and integrity who deeply believed in equality. He was always supportive of his friends.
He generously and willingly lent his support to many local organizations that are about helping others.
It had been Robert's gift of sharing and giving back to others that endeared him to so many. In lieu of
flowers Robert had requested contributions be made to Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights (TOHR).
Robert was one of the founders of TOHR. Recently, the TOHR organization purchased its first building.
Robert had looked forward to being a part of the team which will transform the building into a
community center. Please send contributions to TOHR, Pyramid Project, P.O. Box 2687, Tulsa, OK
74101 and note Robert Cisar Memorial Fund. Service will be 4 p.m., Thursday, March 16, 2006 at All
Souls Unitarian Church. Stanleys, 743-6271.
To plant trees in memory, please visit the Sympathy Store.

Published by Tulsa World on Mar. 14, 2006.

Cisar Pages
See more records on Ancestry®

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/tulsaworld/name/robert-cisar-obituary?id=6865448

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ninde.com/tribute-ajax/print-obituary.html?id=1539

Rex Ball
Rex Martin Ball was born June 14th, 1934 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, the
son of Ralph Martin and Sarah Mae (Kellner) Ball. Rex, an internationally
known architect, urban designer, and champion of historic preservation efforts is
also remembered as a beloved mentor and staunch human rights advocate, who
was as intent on improving the lives around him as he was on improving society.

A memorial service is set for 11 a.m. Friday at the Boston Avenue United
Methodist Church. A visitation is planned from 5 to 7 p.m. at Ninde Brookside
Funeral Home.

Rex, graduated at the age of 16 valedictorian of his class at Kemper Military School. He then attended
Oklahoma State University obtaining his Bachelor's Degree in architecture. His education continued at MIT
where he obtained a Master of Architecture degree. He served two terms on the University of Oklahoma's Board
of Visitors for the College of Architecture (regional and city planning, landscape architecture, construction
management). His artwork is in the permanent collections of his alma maters, OSU and MIT.

Rex was married to Margie Crowley Ball in 1960, with whom he shared many good times, many laughs, and
four wonderful daughters. The couple began their married life in Oklahoma City where he began his career
following in his father's footsteps at HTB, Inc. an international architecture-engineering-planning firm. They
then moved to Tulsa where he founded the Tulsa branch in 1962. In 1976 Rex became a Fellow of the American
Institute of Architects, one of the youngest up to that time to have earned the Institute's highest honor. Marge and
Rex's union ended in 1983, but they remained close friends until his death. Rex met Stephen Edwards in
Oklahoma City in 1984. The same day they formed an inexplicable connection, a beautiful relationship that has
endured for 26 years. Their connection was so complete that they finished each other's sentences and heard each
other's thoughts. Through their bond, Rex gained a 5th wonderful daughter. Rex and Stephen have traveled the
world sharing their love of architecture, interior design, and their zest for life. On the 24th day of October 2008
they were finally able to legally marry in Palm Springs.

Mr. Ball has uniquely served as President of the local AIA Chapters in both Tulsa and Oklahoma City, as well as
the State Council. He is a registered planner by the American Institute of Certified Planners (AICP). He has
served on the Board of Directors of both Tulsa and Oklahoma City Chambers of Commerce.
Within the U.S. Mr. Ball has involved himself directly in a number of award-winning designs which utilized the
public/private partnership concept: the National Press Building in Washington, D.C. with the Pennsylvania
Avenue Development Corporation, One Bell Central in Oklahoma City, the ingenious Mid-Continent Tower in
Tulsa, and the Tulsa Community College conversion of the Sinclair Building and Central High School Shops. All
of these illustratively incorporate the design values of accessibility and people-orientation that are Ball's
trademarks. Mr. Ball's intense interest in our Nation's urban areas found expression through personal
participation on committees in Tulsa and on similar committees within the National Trust for Historic
Preservation/Preservation Oklahoma, the American Consulting Engineers council, the U.S. Jaycees, The
American Institute of Architects (AIA) national component and local chapters, and the Society of American
Military Engineers of which he was a sustaining member. In 1994, Ball was appointed by President Clinton to
serve on the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. He had also chaired the White house Small Business Conference's
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ninde.com/tribute-ajax/print-obituary.html?id=1539

Federal Procurement Task Force, in addition to being listed in Who's Who in America and Who's Who in the
World. In 1994, after 37 years of professional practice, he became Chairman Emeritus of HTB, Inc. HTB has
since been purchased by Dewberry Design, Inc.

Right up to his death, Mr. Ball was in popular demand as a speaker, panelist, and author. Consistently honored
by his peers during his 12-year tenure as CEO of HTB, the firm received over 50 awards nationally and locally.
His honors include the Governor's Business in the Arts Award, the Curt Schwartz Business in the Arts Award,
and the Gannet Foundation's Five Who Care Humanitarian Award for long-standing commitment to economic
development, education, cultural enrichment as well as efforts to help the handicapped and the needy. In
November 1995, OSU singled him out for its Distinguished Alumnus Award for significant service plus personal
and professional achievements. In recent years, he has focused his attention on Tulsa's magnificent collection of
Art Deco buildings by chairing the 6th World Congress on Art Deco; was chair of the International Coalition of
Art Deco Societies; former president of the Tulsa Historic Preservation Commission; co-founder and president
of the Tulsa Art Deco Society. In addition , Rex was a founding commissioner and chairman of the Metropolitan
Tulsa Transit Authority and a member and former president of Downtown Tulsa Unlimited.

Rex is remembered as a devoted friend, loving husband, father and grandfather, who will be dearly missed. Rex
is survived by his husband, Stephen Edwards, his daughters, Julie Kay Willingham, Linda Carol Ball, Sharon
Louise Corbin and her husband, Clarence, Renee Marie Boehnen and her husband, Craig (all of the Dallas area)
and Tiffany Gail Bjorlie and her husband, Jeremy of Tulsa; his grandchildren, Michael Ball, Cheyenne Corbin,
Elyse Glass, Serene Corbin, Derek Corbin, Matthew Willingham, Aleigha Boehnen and Josh Corbin; his
children's mother, Marge Crowley Ball; his special friends, Dwight Kealieher, Mike Tedrick, Steve Aberson and
Brent Ortolani. He was preceded in death by his parents, Ralph and Sarah Mae (Kellner) Ball and his brother,
Leonard Frank Ball. Rex left his body peacefully, family by his side, with Stephen holding him and singing the
show tunes that Rex famously adored.

https://ninde.com/tribute-ajax/print-obituary.html?id=1539

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&lt;h1 class="print-name"&gt;Rex Ball&lt;/h1&gt;
&lt;p class="print-obituary obituary-plain-text"&gt;Rex Martin Ball was born June 14th, 1934 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, the son of Ralph Martin and Sarah Mae (Kellner) Ball. Rex, an internationally known architect, urban designer, and champion of historic preservation efforts is also remembered as a beloved mentor and staunch human rights advocate, who was as intent on improving the lives around him as he was on improving society.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A memorial service is set for 11 a.m. Friday at the Boston Avenue United Methodist Church. A visitation is planned from 5 to 7 p.m. at Ninde Brookside Funeral Home.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rex, graduated at the age of 16 valedictorian of his class at Kemper Military School. He then attended Oklahoma State University obtaining his Bachelor's Degree in architecture. His education continued at MIT where he obtained a Master of Architecture degree. He served two terms on the University of Oklahoma's Board of Visitors for the College of Architecture (regional and city planning, landscape architecture, construction management). His artwork is in the permanent collections of his alma maters, OSU and MIT.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rex was married to Margie Crowley Ball in 1960, with whom he shared many good times, many laughs, and four wonderful daughters. The couple began their married life in Oklahoma City where he began his career following in his father's footsteps at HTB, Inc. an international architecture-engineering-planning firm. They then moved to Tulsa where he founded the Tulsa branch in 1962. In 1976 Rex became a Fellow of the American Institute of Architects, one of the youngest up to that time to have earned the Institute's highest honor. Marge and Rex's union ended in 1983, but they remained close friends until his death. Rex met Stephen Edwards in Oklahoma City in 1984. The same day they formed an inexplicable connection, a beautiful relationship that has endured for 26 years. Their connection was so complete that they finished each other's sentences and heard each other's thoughts. Through their bond, Rex gained a 5th wonderful daughter. Rex and Stephen have traveled the world sharing their love of architecture, interior design, and their zest for life. On the 24th day of October 2008 they were finally able to legally marry in Palm Springs.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mr. Ball has uniquely served as President of the local AIA Chapters in both Tulsa and Oklahoma City, as well as the State Council. He is a registered planner by the American Institute of Certified Planners (AICP). He has served on the Board of Directors of both Tulsa and Oklahoma City Chambers of Commerce.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Within the U.S. Mr. Ball has involved himself directly in a number of award-winning designs which utilized the public/private partnership concept: the National Press Building in Washington, D.C. with the Pennsylvania Avenue Development Corporation, One Bell Central in Oklahoma City, the ingenious Mid-Continent Tower in Tulsa, and the Tulsa Community College conversion of the Sinclair Building and Central High School Shops. All of these illustratively incorporate the design values of accessibility and people-orientation that are Ball's trademarks. Mr. Ball's intense interest in our Nation's urban areas found expression through personal participation on committees in Tulsa and on similar committees within the National Trust for Historic Preservation/Preservation Oklahoma, the American Consulting Engineers council, the U.S. Jaycees, The American Institute of Architects (AIA) national component and local chapters, and the Society of American Military Engineers of which he was a sustaining member. In 1994, Ball was appointed by President Clinton to serve on the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. He had also chaired the White house Small Business Conference's Federal Procurement Task Force, in addition to being listed in Who's Who in America and Who's Who in the World. In 1994, after 37 years of professional practice, he became Chairman Emeritus of HTB, Inc. HTB has since been purchased by Dewberry Design, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Right up to his death, Mr. Ball was in popular demand as a speaker, panelist, and author. Consistently honored by his peers during his 12-year tenure as CEO of HTB, the firm received over 50 awards nationally and locally. His honors include the Governor's Business in the Arts Award, the Curt Schwartz Business in the Arts Award, and the Gannet Foundation's Five Who Care Humanitarian Award for long-standing commitment to economic development, education, cultural enrichment as well as efforts to help the handicapped and the needy. In November 1995, OSU singled him out for its Distinguished Alumnus Award for significant service plus personal and professional achievements. In recent years, he has focused his attention on Tulsa's magnificent collection of Art Deco buildings by chairing the 6th World Congress on Art Deco; was chair of the International Coalition of Art Deco Societies; former president of the Tulsa Historic Preservation Commission; co-founder and president of the Tulsa Art Deco Society. In addition , Rex was a founding commissioner and chairman of the Metropolitan Tulsa Transit Authority and a member and former president of Downtown Tulsa Unlimited.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rex is remembered as a devoted friend, loving husband, father and grandfather, who will be dearly missed. Rex is survived by his husband, Stephen Edwards, his daughters, Julie Kay Willingham, Linda Carol Ball, Sharon Louise Corbin and her husband, Clarence, Renee Marie Boehnen and her husband, Craig (all of the Dallas area) and Tiffany Gail Bjorlie and her husband, Jeremy of Tulsa; his grandchildren, Michael Ball, Cheyenne Corbin, Elyse Glass, Serene Corbin, Derek Corbin, Matthew Willingham, Aleigha Boehnen and Josh Corbin; his children's mother, Marge Crowley Ball; his special friends, Dwight Kealieher, Mike Tedrick, Steve Aberson and Brent Ortolani. He was preceded in death by his parents, Ralph and Sarah Mae (Kellner) Ball and his brother, Leonard Frank Ball. 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                    <text>1/31/25, 12:46 PM

Carrie Fleharty - Agnes Patricia Spurgin was born on January 6,... | Facebook

Carrie Fleharty's Post
Carrie Fleharty
April 15, 2022 ·

Agnes Patricia Spurgin was born on January 6, 1941 at Morningside hospital in Tulsa, Oklahoma to
Paul Eugene Spurgin, Sr., and Madeline Kime Spurgin. Some people knew her as Pat Spurgin, her
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family called her Tish, and some of her closest friends knew her as Trish.

Next time you log in on this browser, just click your profile picture instead of typing a

Trish
passed away peacefully in the afternoon at her home. She was surrounded by her devoted
password.
partner, neighbors, John and Dusty, and her closest friend, Christiane on June 27, 2021. She had been
diagnosed with a bacterial
illness, Trish’s body was
OKlung infection, and COPD. Weakened by a lengthy
Not Now
not able to overcome these two diseases.
Trish graduated from Central High School in 1959. She briefly attended Western College for Women in
Oxford, Ohio which is now part of Miami University. She then took classes at the University of Tulsa
What's onCollege
your mind,
Amanda?
and Tulsa Community
studying
accounting and Human Resources. She was an all-around
bookkeeper for various businesses in and around Tulsa.
Her favorite place to work was for her stepfather at Logan Concessions. She loved the smell of fresh
Live video
Photo/video
Feeling/activity
roasted peanuts and fresh-popped popcorn. She enjoyed gardening, bird watching, and being
outdoors. As a youngster, she spent many summers at the Spurgin ranch in Osage county. She would
tell stories of helping the mother pigs with their babies. She helped with the cattle drives, and getting
the cattle vaccinated. She spoke very fondly of her time on the Spurgin Ranch. She always wanted to
be a rancher. She had a deep respect and love for Nature. Trish really loved her dogs and cats. They
were her children.
Trish was preceded in death by her parents Paul Eugene Spurgin Sr., Madeline Kime Spurgin Logan,
and her brother Paul Eugene Spurgin Jr. She is survived by her beloved and cherished partner of 20
years, Carrie Fleharty.
A memorial will be held on April 30, 2022, at 2 pm at Bluff Landing east of Broken Arrow at the shelter.
YouCreate
will need
story to bring a chair. This was one of the spots that she went to visit often. In lieu of flowers,
you may send a memorial to Tulsa Equality Center or the Tulsa Garden Center.
87
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              <text>&lt;div class="xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs x126k92a"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;div class="xu06os2 x1ok221b"&gt;
&lt;div class="html-div xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;div class="html-div xdj266r x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r xexx8yu x4uap5 x18d9i69 xkhd6sd x1q0g3np"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Carrie Fleharty&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;April 15, 2022&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Agnes Patricia Spurgin was born on January 6, 1941 at Morningside hospital in Tulsa, Oklahoma to Paul Eugene Spurgin, Sr., and Madeline Kime Spurgin. Some people knew her as Pat Spurgin, her family called her Tish, and some of her closest friends knew her as Trish.&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;Trish passed away peacefully in the afternoon at her home. She was surrounded by her devoted partner, neighbors, John and Dusty, and her closest friend, Christiane on June 27, 2021. She had been diagnosed with a bacterial lung infection, and COPD. Weakened by a lengthy illness, Trish’s body was not able to overcome these two diseases.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Trish graduated from Central High School in 1959. She briefly attended Western College for Women in Oxford, Ohio which is now part of Miami University. She then took classes at the University of Tulsa and Tulsa Community College studying accounting and Human Resources. She was an all-around bookkeeper for various businesses in and around Tulsa.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Her favorite place to work was for her stepfather at Logan Concessions. She loved the smell of fresh roasted peanuts and fresh-popped popcorn. She enjoyed gardening, bird watching, and being outdoors. As a youngster, she spent many summers at the Spurgin ranch in Osage county. She would tell stories of helping the mother pigs with their babies. She helped with the cattle drives, and getting the cattle vaccinated. She spoke very fondly of her time on the Spurgin Ranch. She always wanted to be a rancher. She had a deep respect and love for Nature. Trish really loved her dogs and cats. They were her children.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Trish was preceded in death by her parents Paul Eugene Spurgin Sr., Madeline Kime Spurgin Logan, and her brother Paul Eugene Spurgin Jr. She is survived by her beloved and cherished partner of 20 years, Carrie Fleharty.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="x11i5rnm xat24cr x1mh8g0r x1vvkbs xtlvy1s x126k92a"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;A memorial will be held on April 30, 2022, at 2 pm at Bluff Landing east of Broken Arrow at the shelter. You will need to bring a chair. This was one of the spots that she went to visit often. In lieu of flowers, you may send a memorial to Tulsa Equality Center or the Tulsa Garden Center.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;</text>
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                    <text>OKLAHOMANS FOR EQUALITY
OkEq History Project – Oral History Series
Interview of Bill Francisco conducted by Toby Jenkins on September 13, 2011

Bill Francisco – Born September 5th, 1933, Passed December 25, 2024
Jenkins
I'm Toby Jenkins, Executive Director of Oklahomans for Equality, and here we
are at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center on September 13, 2011, for our Vintage Series, where
we capture the stories of those who lived our history and made history. They came out, and we
don't want them to have to go back in and keep their stories silent. So today we've got Bill
Francisco, who will be my guest of honor, and we're going to find out about what Tulsa was
like in the period of life that he lived here, and he lived in some other places and witnessed
some very significant events associated with our community and the struggle for equality.
Welcome, Bill. Are you excited to be here?
Francisco

Oh, absolutely.

I understand that you just celebrated a birthday. Yes, I did. Do you really want to know?
Yes. I'm 80 years old, September the 5th. September the 5th.
Well, happy birthday, Bill. We welcome you today, and you've lived now seven decades on
planet Earth. That's right. Any regrets?
A few, but we forgot about those.
Oh, you forgot about those?

1

�Yes, absolutely.
I want to start a little bit today and talk about your early childhood and a little bit about what
Tulsa was like in those days, and then we'll move through to some of the
most recent things in your life where you've been honored by your own
community, and we'll talk. I want to know some dirt on some people, so I'll
be asking you some of those questions, and then I want to hear some
secrets that maybe nobody else, because inquiring minds, want to know
. Uh-oh. I'm in trouble already, aren't I?
You were born what year?
1931.
1931, so that would have been in the middle of the Depression.
That's right. I was a Depression baby.
And you were born in Oklahoma?
I was born in Oklahoma on a dirt farm right outside of Catoosa.
Okay, born at home?
Born at home.
All right. Tell us a little bit about your parents.
My parents were Portuguese.
Portuguese, so that's what Francisco is?
Francisco is the last name in the Portuguese. Francisco is a first name in Italian, but in
Portuguese, it is the last name.
The last name. Yeah, right. And so they were farmers.
They were dirt farmers. Dirt farmers. Yes.
And now did they raise their produce, and then they bring it to town and sell it?
Is that kind of what they did, like drug farmers?
Kind of like that. Yes.
Now, where did you go to school?

2

�I went to, I guess, five grade schools.
Okay. Here in Tulsa.
In Tulsa. Yeah, yeah. Eventually, they moved into Tulsa into an apartment.
Okay.
And we went from apartment to apartment all until I was the sixth grade.
Sixth grade.
So I've been to practically every elementary school in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Now, what elementary schools did you attend that the buildings would still be standing?
Several of those have probably been.
Yes.
Lincoln School, which is now Lincoln Plaza on there on 15th.
In Cherry Street area?
15th and Cherry Street. It's Jason's Deli. I danced in Jason's Deli. And it was an elementary
school. And it was an elementary school. All right. My first one was at
Roosevelt. No, not Roosevelt. Longfellow.
Okay.
Longfellow. So it's now demolished. And there's the Native American Health Clinic there in
Sixth and Peoria.
Sixth and Peoria
. That's where Longfellow Junior High School was.
All right. So you attended elementary there.
Yeah.
Did you have some interest? Did you play sports or were you interested in music or dance?
I didn't know what I was interested in. But I did become interested in the theater
In the theater.

3

�Yes.
And what was your first exposure to that?
My first exposure was I was elected to play the part of the little boy, the pioneer woman, the
little boy from Ponca City, Oklahoma. They was having some statue things
for a benefit for the school.
Right.
And I was about this tall. And they said, oh, you'd be great as the little boy and the pioneer
woman. You know?
So I was all done up like a little pioneer boy. But it was all statues. And I had to stand still for
three minutes without moving.
And how old were you?
Seven years old.
Seven years old. Okay. Can you imagine a seven-year-old kid standing still for that long?
What I did was I wanted to do such a good job that I held my breath for three minutes.
It's a wonder you didn't pass out.
And I almost passed out. You're right. I almost passed out. But I did it. And they thought it was
great.
They thought it was great.
But I got interested then in the theater.
In the theater.
Because I love applause.
Well, I think we all do. You like being the center of attention.
It wasn't that. It was just the appreciation of the people who acknowledged it. Hey, he's okay.
Now, did you ever do any dancing in those days?
Oh, no. No. No. I didn't start dancing until I was in high school.

4

�Okay.
I was a musician before that.
What instrument did you play?
Well, it's a bastard instrument now, but it was the accordion.
Okay. And I think we have a picture of you. You're awful dressed up here.
Oh, yeah.
Now, there you are playing the accordion. Wow. Very distinguished. Looked like you should
have been on the Ed Sullivan show.
Well, this was taken in Chicago. At Lawrence Welk.
That's right.
But they were better than I was. But this was a competition at the Palmer House in Chicago, I
think it was. The Palmer Hotel, I guess it was. And we went up there, a
group of accordionists or accordion players, or whatever they're calling
them, and went up there and competed in the national accordion.
Now, where did you go to high school?
I went to high school at Will Rogers. Will Rogers High School.
And I think I have a picture of you. Looks like you might have your letter sweater on.
Oh, yeah. I don't even remember this picture. Okay. Somebody sent this to me, and I said, are
you sure that's me?
Yep, that's you.
No, I was a cheerleader.
You were a cheerleader for Will Rogers High School?
I was a cheerleader for Will Rogers High School.
In those days, Will Rogers High School, is it in the present building?
Oh, absolutely. Now, that was probably in the days when it was a brand new building, and it
was the top design. I was in the 10th graduating class. 10th graduating

5

�class. And they called it Will on the Hill, because it was way out in the
country, on the hill out there.
All right. They called it Will on the Hill. Now, did you have any part-time jobs while you were
in school? Like maybe work for a newspaper or anything?
Well, my parents did not appreciate me going into the theater.
Okay.
So I left home very early.
Very early?
Very early.
Had to support yourself?
Had to support myself from whatever. I delivered the Tulsa World in the mornings so that I
could go to school, and I delivered the Tulsa World out in the White City
District.
Okay. About 11th and Yale area?
From 3rd to 11th Street, east of Yale.
Yeah, the White City neighborhood. White City neighborhood.
Yeah, it's not called that anymore. It's called Brayton Park now.
Oh, is it really?
At those days, it was called White City. Well, it really didn't mean White City.
Right.
It didn't mean it was named after something else.
Yes, it was not. But anyway. Now, did you walk and deliver the newspaper or ride a bicycle?
I did a bicycle and I did horseback.
All right.
Yale Avenue was a two-lane highway back then, and they had drainage ditches on each side of
the highway.

6

�You're shaking your head. Do you know that?
No.
And they had these little wooden bridges to go through to the side streets, you know? And it
was way out in the country. So I could ride my horse out there, you know?
But the people of White City, there was a brand new, elegant addition. And
I would ride my horse through their lawns to put the paper on their porch
for them, you know? And when it would rain, I'd go through their lawn
and put the paper on their porch, and they complained because I was
digging up their lawn.
Your horse was digging up their yard.
Absolutely.
So didn't you get fired from the Tulsa World because of that?
No, they told me to stop riding the horse.
So you went to Will Rogers High School.
Yes.
And you got interested in the theater.
I got really interested in the theater.
And when did you become interested in dancing? Because I understand that you had some
interest in that.
Yes. Actually, I was a little older. I was probably about 18 or 19 when I started to dance.
Okay.
I have your graduation picture right here. Graduation picture from Will Rogers High School.
That doesn't look like me.
You were very handsome.
Yeah. That's a good picture, though.
So when you were 19, you got interested in?
In dancing.

7

�In dancing.
Now, I know you rode horses, but what exactly is this picture? It looks like a mule to me.
It's a toro.
A toro. Okay. So it's a bull.
It's a bull.
All right.
And I'm the back end of the bull.
All right.
And this is a theater group?
This is the Tulsa Opera.
And you were in a Tulsa Opera production.
I was in a Tulsa Opera. Tulsa Opera first started out with operettas. You know, they weren't big
enough yet. And all their first productions were all operettas.
Okay.
That was from Rio Rita.
Okay.
This is from the Desert Song with the Tulsa Opera. Then later on, they became legitimate and
started to do the real opera.
Okay. If this is an opera, did you dance or did you sing?
We danced. Oh, yes. We danced.
Okay. And I notice you are bare-chested, so they like to show off your bare chest.
Well, I don't know.
And this would have been in what year?
Oh, gosh. Sometime in the 40s or 50s?

8

�Oh, it's got to be in the 50s.
50s? Okay.
Yeah. I graduated in 49. It's got to be in the 50s.
So about how? You were about 20, 22?
Yeah. I was about 20, 22.
Okay. And so you were involved with the Tulsa Opera and the Tulsa Ballet.
At first.
At first.
At the Tulsa Opera was first. Then I got a scholarship to go to Los Angeles. And I went to Los
Angeles and studied with Ruth St. Dennis Studio, which was a – people
don't know her now, but she was one of – I guess – I don't know. I guess
she was very famous as a spiritual modern dancer. And I got a scholarship
to go – she was 82 years old when I went out there.
Wow. Okay.
Now, she didn't teach me much movement in dance, but the philosophy behind this woman just
changed my whole life. She was really a remarkable woman.
So you were out in Los Angeles.
I was out in Los Angeles. Near Hollywood. Near Hollywood. And I studied. And I took lessons
from Eugene Loring at the Hollywood School of Ballet. And I auditioned
for a movie.
This is when the musicals were all fabulous musicals, you know. What was it? The 50s, 60s,
50s?
And I auditioned for a musical with Gwynne Verdon and Danny Kaye. And it was on the
Riviera. But there was 500 dancers auditioned. I got to the final audition,
and then I got a notice from Uncle Sam, come back to Tulsa, I was drafted.
That brings us to this.
That brings us to this. So there you are.
Yes, I am.

9

�What branch of the military were you in?
I was in the artillery.
Army?
Army. The Army artillery. That's where I started. That's where they drafted me, you know.
Now, boot camp, where was boot camp at?
Camp Chaffee, Arkansas.
Oh, that's hot down there, wasn't it?
Yeah, it was hot. Yeah, it was really hot. Really hot. It was very hot.
So you went to Fort Chaffee for?
Went to Fort Chaffee for my boot camp. For my boot camp.
And then where were your assignments?
My assignment was in Germany. I was very fortunate. It was right after the Korean War. It was
in the middle of it before Vietnam, in between. And so I didn't have to go to
Vietnam or Korea. They sent me to Europe, and I worked with the special
services over there in Europe. So I had a good job, you know. I really didn't
mind that much. I never carried a gun in my life, but it was pretty nice.
Now, I see here that this is a Tulsa World newspaper, and it says GI Dancer, formerly with the
Tulsa Opera, wins coveted medal in German Festival. So there's a picture
of you bare-chested. They seem to like to show off your chest in those
days. And you're bare-chested, and you're in front of a bunch of children.
Tell us exactly what you were doing there. And apparently the Tulsa World
was pretty proud. Tulsa was apparently pretty proud that...
This article was originally done by the German newspaper. And it was all in German. And I
couldn't understand a word of it. So I sent it home to my mother and said,
could you get this, what do you call it?
Translated.
Translated, yeah. Get it translated. So she took it to the Tulsa World, and they just said, wow,
this is wonderful. And they translated it and put it in the paper. Oh, am I
moving?
See, I get all...

10

�So you were there in Germany working with these school children. Now, what were you doing
exactly?
I was teaching them a lot of American dance in Augsburg, Germany.
Okay.
I was also helping to rehabilitate children from World War II.
Okay.
So you were part of the restoration.
Part of the restoration of World War II. And I was teaching the children, and they honored me
with this great honor from the city of Augsburg.
Now, here's a picture. I don't know if our cameras can catch that, but it looks like you're
dancing with someone with a crown on her head.
Yes. That's the Princess of Augsburg.
Okay.
That I was dancing.
And you got an opportunity to dance. Was she a good dancer?
No.
No, okay. But you made her look good, didn't you?
Oh, yes.
We just really, really appreciate it. And here you are with some of your military buddies.
Yes, this is all my military buddies.
Now, that was all there in Germany, correct?
Yes, that's all in Germany.
All right, so you did that in the military. And when did you get out of the military?
54.

11

�54?
Did you come back to Tulsa?
Oh, yes.
Now, had Tulsa changed much because of the war? I understand there was a lot of building
and GI homes were being thrown up.
The GI homes were being thrown up. Brookside really became very, very, very big after World
War II. With brand new homes and grocery stores and things. Little
wooden houses, you know, all along Brookside. What did they call them?
The little Cape Cod houses?
All was done in Brookside. Now, Tulsa had big movie theaters in those days. And I understand
you used to work at some of the big movie palaces.
Yes. I was an usher. Of course, I still had to work my way through. Through living, you know, I
was an usher at the Orpheum Theater. One of the most ornate, burlesque
houses in the Midwest. It was absolutely elegant. Of course, they tore it
down and built up a glass building there instead of it.
Where was the?
About a third in Cheyenne area.
Second or third?
It was a little bit past that. But anyway, it was a beautiful ornate theater. It was absolutely
gorgeous. And I'd like to know where the Oklahoma Historic Society was
at that time. Or the Preservationists. Preservationists, allow them to tear
that theater down. It was just gorgeous.
Now, were you there at that movie theater working there when they had the world premiere of
Tulsa?
Yes, I was. Yes, I was.
And so you met?
Yes, I was. What was her name though?
Rita Hayworth.

12

�Rita Hayworth, yes. I ushered her down into the theater. They had a big parade down Main
Street for the opening of the movie Tulsa.
Okay.
Big, big deal. Big deal in Tulsa. Thousands of people down there. And they had the premiere in
the Orpheum Theater. And I was privileged to usher her down to the front
row.
Was she beautiful and gracious?
Yeah, well. No, not really. She was kind of snooty. She was famous at the time. When they get
famous and do things like that, you know these movie stars. Now I see in
this picture, was this on a beach here in Tulsa?
No.
No?
That's on Jones Beach in New York. Does anybody know where Jones Beach is?
So you ended up in New York. Now how did you end up in New York?
Okay. Did dancing take you there?
No, no. I joined American Airlines in 1955, I guess it was. And I also worked with the Tulsa
Ballet. Tulsa Civic Ballet at that time with Marceline Larkin. And with the
Tulsa Opera, who became a legitimate opera house. I did Faust and I did,
what was the other one I did?
Faust and another opera with them. And that's where I stopped singing. There was this diva
from New York, you know, they used to hire all the people to come in to
sing the top roles. Well, oh, Aida, it was Aida.
Okay.
It was painted all in gold and everything. And at that time, they allowed all of the chorus and
the dancers, they all had ballet in the operas, a quart of ballet in the operas.
Well, they always allowed them to come in and sing at the finale. So they'd
have a big crowd there. Well, I came in and I was right behind this
metropolitan opera star in the back, just singing like mad. I thought I was
doing great. She turned around to me and said, mouth it, buddy. I thought,
oh, my God. I was throwing her off key. I have never sung in notes since.
All right.

13

�I do some lip syncing now, but I've never done it.
All right. So how did you end up in New York? You worked for American Airlines?
I worked for American Airlines. They moved the accounting office from 910 South Boston to
New York City. When they bought their first computer, IBM would not
install a computer except in New York City, because nobody knew how
they wanted them, you know. So they moved the entire part of American
Airlines up to New York City. That's how I got to New York City.
All right. And what did you do in New York City besides work? I understand you studied a
little bit.
I studied music.
Yes,
yes. I studied dancing, really. I was at the International School of Dance at Carnegie Hall. I did
that of an evening after work, you know. So I didn't have much time to play
because I was studying all the time I was there. And that's where I fell in
love with clogging. They had a semester there of American folk dancing
with square dancing and clogging and all. And I took a semester of
clogging up in New York and I said, this is fantastic. I love this. I don't
want to do ballet anymore. I don't want to clog because there's so much
fun. And, you know, kids from three years old up to 80 years old can clog,
you know. It's just wonderful. So I did that. And when I came back to
Tulsa, I thought, this is really strange. I grew up in Oklahoma where
clogging was all over the world and I didn't even think about it. I had to go
to New York City to find out, hey, I love to clog. And I had it all around me
all the time I was there.
Now you're rushing ahead because I want to ask about some secret things. You were in New
York. Did you ever, I understand in those days, lots of Oklahomans fled
Oklahoma and they moved to New York for the gay culture, for the gay life
subculture that was there in New York. There were clubs and bars,
entertainment venues. Did you ever go out and have a drink at some of the
nightclubs?
Oh, yes, I did.
And you met, did you meet anybody special there?
I met my one and only partner. I've never had one since. And I was, what, 20, 24, 25.
You fell madly in love.

14

�And I fell madly in love. His name was Nick. That was there in New York. And it was in New
York City. Now in June... We used to go out dancing on Sunday brunch.
They had big dances, tea dances they called them at the time. Sunday
brunches, we would go out to the club, to one of our favorite clubs there in
New York. And we would dance Sundays from 11 o'clock until 6 at night.
He was the disco. He couldn't dance anything else. But he was a great
disco dancer. And I had a great time. I really did.
Now, and you were there in New York when the Stonewall riots happened.
Yes.
You were just around the corner, understand?
What were you doing that night?
Nick and I had gone down to the village to a little restaurant. They had these restaurants which
was underneath the brownstones, you know, where they went down
underneath it.
Below street level.
Below street level. They had these little restaurants there. And we went to our favorite
restaurant. And we heard all this commotion going on outside, you know.
And everybody in the restaurant got up, went out on the street. And we was
a block away. We was a block away from Stonewall. But we saw
everything that was going on down there. And... It was very frightening.
Yes. But that started the gay movement. Now, did you have any friends who were injured or
knew any of the people that were arrested?
No, I really didn't. I really didn't. I really didn't. After it was almost... We stood out there for, oh,
I guess about an hour. And we didn't even know what it was all about at the
time, you know. And we walked down to the subway after dinner. And we
went home. And the next morning on the paper, the Village Voice, we saw
what it was all about. I wasn't in it, but I really, I really saw it.
And you said there was quite a pushback from New York over it. And then there was a march a
few days later.
Yeah.
Where they told everybody to come out and march in the streets.
Yes, yes.

15

�And did you march in the streets with them in that parade?
We had to work.
And people were afraid still, weren't they afraid of being out?
They were afraid. You had to have somebody with you.
Okay.
But the police was very cautious at the time.
And that was the very first Gay Pride March?
The very first Gay Pride March is in Greenwich Village in New York.
1969.
1969 it was. Yeah, and that started the whole gay movement.
Look where we've come from. So whenever you, probably when we come around Pride time
and you think about our parades, lots of young people today don't even realize we're
commemorating an act of war. When they were waging war on us in 1969. And it was the
retaliation. We stood up for ourselves. And we're commemorating when we stood up and said
you're not going to do this to us anymore.
Yep, that's right.
So whenever we have Pride parades, do you ever allow your mind to think about that, that
maybe some of our young people don't understand what it's really about?
Oh, all the time. All the time. The young people today have so much freedom. When I grew up,
there was no freedom in the gay community. No, there wasn't even a
community. But the kids today have so much freedom to do whatever they
want to do, whatever they want to do. And I just keep thinking, God, if I'd
have had that when I was young, they have bars they can go to now. There
wasn't a gay bar in Tulsa when I grew up here. I wouldn't even think about
it. Except the Bamboo Lounge was the first gay bar in Tulsa.
So you came back to Tulsa in the early 1970s?
Yes, yes. I came back in, I guess about 75, I guess it was.
And you had discovered clogging.
I had discovered clogging.

16

�And you came back. In fact, did you hunt down the gay community when you got back to
Tulsa?
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I found freedom at last.
You came back and told them about New York, right?
Yes, yes. Now, what bars were there in that day in the 1970s?
In Tulsa? Well, I can't remember all of them because I didn't go to all of them. My favorite was
Tim's Playroom. Tim's Playroom.
Oh, good.
You could go in there and you could dance disco from nine o'clock at night until two o'clock in
the morning without even stopping. And I used to go in there and just
dance all night long, all night long. One of the greatest DJs that ever lived
was in that bar.
Now, you were talking about what young people have today. Yes. Whenever you think about the
equality center and it being downtown, what do you think about that in
Oklahomans for Equality?
Oh, what you have done for equality is really great. I started out, well, coming from New York
back down here and seeing all of the things going on, I helped start TOHR.
Oklahomans for Human Rights is what it was called.
Yes, Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights. That's what it was. There was about five or six very
prominent people in Tulsa, and then there was me, the little guy that didn't
have any money or anything. But I went in with them and I said, come on,
let's do it. You knew Dennis Neill on that day?
Oh, yes. Oh, yes, I knew Dennis Neill. I'll tell you something about Dennis Neill. He used to
live right around the corner from me on 31st and Woodard Boulevard. This
was a long time ago. And after work, he would jog, I guess it was called
jogging then, he would jog after work down 31st Street down to River Park
and back to home. I'd be out working in the yard. He'd always wave at me,
you know, as he goes by. Hi, Bill. Hi, Dennis. And great guy. And I saw his
first turnabout performance.
Oh, he's done drag? I don't think any of us knew that.

17

�There was a big benefit out at this restaurant on 71st Street. It's no longer out there, no longer a
restaurant. But they had a big turnabout benefit out there. And Dennis Neill
was in drag.
So you all formed this organization 31 years ago.
Yeah.
And so it's an entirely different world, isn't it, than it was 31 years ago?
Oh, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
Now, when did you start clogging with, put together your clogging group?
My first clogging group was 1986. I formed it because of the Oklahoma OGRA, which is the
Oklahoma Gay Rodeo Association. We didn't have one in Tulsa. So I
formed a group called the Green Country Cloggers. The Green Country
Cloggers. And it was a great group. It was a wonderful group. And we
performed all over the Midwest. We went from all the gay rodeos, from
Denver, Phoenix, California, Kansas, Oklahoma. They didn't have one in
Arkansas at the time. But I mean, every one of them. Texas, Texas was the
big one. The big gay rodeo in Texas. And we became pretty famous, didn't
we?
Yes. Now, that was 1986.
That was 1986.
That would have been right in the middle of the epidemic. So we were having people, AIDS
was in full swing and people were dying. And there were probably people
here in Tulsa who had been infected. They were. They were. What are your
thoughts about how the community reacted to that?
I don't think they reacted. I really don't. They should have had more, but there was not enough
information to say, Oh, hey, we're not affected by this. And out of my 12
cloggers, I lost seven.
Out of your original things.
So then we disbanded and I couldn't handle it anymore. And later on, when Tulsa got its own
rodeo, SSRA rodeo, I started the SSRA clogging team, Sooner State
Cloggers.
Now here's a picture of your cloggers dressed up as the village people.
That was the original Green Country cloggers.

18

�All right. And here you are. Are you the muscle guy or the police officer?
I'm Felipe, the Indian.
So you were the Indian. Well, that's a great picture. I love that.
This guy right here, he runs the Eagle in Dallas, Texas. He owns the Eagle in Dallas, Texas.
This guy here was one of the original owners of the toolbox. And this guy
right here, beautiful man.
Well, they're all very handsome.
All very handsome. Yeah.
Good group.
Now you did clogging and somewhere in there, somebody decided that you looked a little bit
like Santa Claus. And you started doing...
Yes. I was doing, I was teaching clogging out in Glenpool at the Glenpool Community Center,
which Glenpool was nothing then, I don't think. But we did a couple of
shows out at Black Gold Days. I guess it was. Every year they had the
Black Gold Days out at Glenpool. And I was working with the kids out
there. And one of the organizers said, Bill, would you play Santa Claus for
us?
And I said, well, sure. I never get a chance to entertain, you know. I'm such a ham anyway. But
I said, sure, I will. So they gave me this old Santa Claus, a moth-eaten
Santa Claus suit and a phony beard. And I went out there and I clogged for
their Christmas show. Well, the kids just went crazy. They thought it was
the funniest thing to see Santa Claus clogging. And I said, well, you know,
I continue to do it from then on because I made the kids so happy with that.
And that's how it all started.
We're looking at a magazine article from 1998 in The Oklahoman. And it's a feature article on
you, The Dancing Santa. And it tells about his opera days and what he did
in the restoration of Europe and his work with German children. But it also
talks about how he just lights up the day and makes these kids' parties so
exciting with Santa who dances. Well, you've had quite a remarkable life.
I'm looking right here. You've been given seven awards. This is a lifetime
achievement award that you received last year. Clogger Bill, with huge
thanks from the Tulsa gay community, 2009. You are our hero. That was in
2009. And you've continued to do a lot of benefit work for lots of different
nonprofits. And lots of organizations that serve people living with HIV
AIDS.

19

�Absolutely. The other night... I'm a server.
You are.
I try to do everything to serve. I don't want anything for myself. Well, almost.
You won't turn it down, is what you're saying. That's where we go.
You know, the other night... I'm very humble. I just don't want anything, except I do love
applause.
Well, I think we all like attention. The other night, the Tulsa Eagle threw a birthday party for
you, celebrating your 80th birthday. Unbelievable. And the place was
packed. And such good fun. I want you to know, I was looking forward to
that and I was excited being able to attend. And then I want our audience to
know that a few days before that, you called me and you said, Toby, I want
to do something to remember the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender
people who died on 9-11. Nobody's ever thought about them. So you
wanted to inflate helium balloons in pastel colors. We spent all afternoon
blowing up the balloons. And you said, Toby, I want us to launch the
balloons a little after seven. So that was what I was so touched by because
I'd been watching on 9-11 Sunday. I'd been watching all the coverage of the
dedication of the 9-11 memorial and how that affected Oklahomans. And
then I attended the event at the BOK Center that OCCJ sponsored. And
then to be able to go to your party where our community gathered and we
wanted to make sure that our people had not been forgotten, been
recognized. And we set those balloons off at 7-15. We read the names of all
of the hundreds of gay people who died on 9-11. And we set those balloons
off. And it was the strangest thing, there was a set of jets doing a maneuver
up in the sky. And right when we set those balloons off, the balloons took
off and those jets crossed right in the middle of the sky. And there was this
huge cross in the sky as we set those balloons off. Now, Bill, I checked. To
my knowledge, there was not another memorial tribute to the gay victims
of 9-11 than the one in Tulsa, Oklahoma that Bill Francisco wanted to do.
It was his day, but you still wanted to think of others. Now, because of that,
that night they surprised you. And I think probably this sums up your life.
It takes a moment to change history. It takes love to change lives. The
Imperial Court of all Oklahoma hereby proclaims the Youth Scholarship to
be forever named in the honor of Clogger Bill Francisco Youth Scholarship
Fund, September 11, 2011. That night they surprised you by naming a
youth scholarship in your honor. How do you feel about that?
Oh, my God. First, I wish they wouldn't do it until after the show. Because I was so emotional, I
couldn't hardly dance. It's a big honor

20

�. It's a very big honor. Now, what do you think when young people, young gay and lesbian
people who are applying for scholarships to be able to go to college and
further their education, when they hear about this scholarship opportunity
and they read the story about who it's named after, what do you want to be
able to tell them?
I want them to follow their dreams. Go for it.
Well, thank you very much. You've been with us today while we've interviewed here on
Vintage, Bill Francisco, who I think followed his dreams and he did go for
it. And our city is richer because of his contribution. Thank you so much
for joining us today. Applause How was that?

21

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                    <text>Oklahomans for Equality
Oral History Interview
with
Carolyn Wiley
Interview Conducted by Toby Jenkins
Date: 2009 or 2010
Additional Interview conducted on May 26, 2026 and
included as an addendum
Transcript Edited by Dennis Neill – May 30, 2026
Restrictions: Interviewee requested: Video for Onsite
Review

Oklahomans for Equality
History Project
621 E. 4th Street
Tulsa, OK. 74120
918.743.4297

1

�About Carolyn Wiley…

Screenshot from 2009 or 2010 Interview.

Photo taken on May 26, 2026, when Toby Jenkins did an additional video interview with
Carolyn. The transcript is included as an addendum.

Toby Jenkins - Bob, who is our translator today, Carolyn's partner, is
hearing impaired and in this video she wanted to make sure that her partner
would be able to see the whole interview. And then of course, Glenna, who
does a lot of work with us here at the center and teaches sign language
classes and all sorts of things like that, she is also hearing impaired. And
2

�her daughter is in charge of the GSA group at Owasso, so give Glenna a
hand. We're very proud of her.
Alright, if you're ready, I'm ready.
Okay, we're ready.
Alright, I'm Toby Jenkins, Executive Director of Oklahomans for Equality,
and we're here in the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center with our Vintage
series. Vintage captures the stories of those who brought us to the place
where we're enjoying incredible freedom and acceptance in this part of the
country and helped us build what we have today here at Oklahomans for
Equality. We're interviewing Carolyn Wiley, who is a former educator, an
advocate for many issues for the gay community, who can tell us a side of
the story that you may not know, so I look forward to you hearing about a
little Oklahoma girl who made it big. And Carolyn, now this is just like the
Jerry Springer story. We like to come up with some secrets, so be thinking
about that because I'm going to let you tell some little tantalizing details for
us to do also. Carolyn, thank you for being with us today so much. We're
very honored, and I've known you for years and always admired you, so I
feel very fortunate to have you with us today. I want to start at the
beginning, not the beginning of the earth, but at the beginning of your life.
And this little baby doll right here in this picture was born where?
Where were you born?
I was born in Duncan, Oklahoma. Duncan, Oklahoma. Way out on the
prairie. Yes, and then taken even further out on the prairie to the farm
where I grew up.
An old farm girl. And this right here is a picture of your mom and dad?
This is a picture of my mom and dad, and they were older. They were
both in their 40s when I was born, and I was adopted, so they wanted a
child very bad. And yeah, they ended up with me.
Well, I think they probably were proud of you because the pictures seem to
say that. This is a wonderful picture of, I believe you said this is your
mother's parents?
My mother's parents, along with my parents. This was taken down in
north central Texas, just west of Wichita Falls, at my mother's uncle and
aunt's store at Four Corners Mankins. All that was there was a little
filling station, their little filling station, grocery store, which is where that
was taken. And they had a post office, and there were about two houses,
and that was it. That was it. That was it. Lots of rattlesnakes.
3

�Well, I love this picture right here. It says Lincoln Valley District 79. And
this is your school picture, and Lincoln Valley would have been around
where?
Lincoln Valley was located about six miles outside of Walters, little
community school, little one-room schoolhouse. So yes, I can tell the
story of going to a one-room school. That was the entire school, grades
one through eight. I was a whole five years old in the first grade.
Needless to say, I was too young to go into a proper school. But the
teacher said it was okay, invited my mom. And there was another family
with a little boy, five. And so we got to be in first grade together. Hi,
everybody. Thank you. It was quite an experience. And yeah, what can I
say?
That was where I got all of my whippings that I ever got in school.
Oh, and you got several?
I got four that year. Four whippings in one year by the teacher
because I liked to play in the water. Every time it rained, there would
be water puddles out there. Couldn't get wet. Right. So we'd start
walking way around and get closer and closer and I'd get wet.
Now, how old are you in this picture right here?
Oh my, that is third grade.
Third grade. Little freckles. Seven years old. Beautiful blue eyes. Very
curly hair.
Very curly.
And would you love that? Would you love to have your hair brushed? I
think you told me.
Oh, I hated having my hair brushed. Because it was long hair. I was very tender-headed
because, well, I was always with my dad. Wherever my dad was, that's where I was. Whether
it was riding in the back of the pickup or I was riding on the tractor or on the drill or
whatever at the time. And my hair would get tangled and mother wanted to brush it out and it
was not very gentle and it hurt and I tried a lot.
Where were you at school? Because your little one-room school house had closed.
The one-room school house closed after the one year and I had to go into town to Walters to
school. All of my schooling was in Walters until I went to college.
4

�Now in this picture, I believe you cut your hair. Finally. This was the day at the beginning of
your hoodlum years?
Yes, as a matter of fact it was. And believe me, I talked for the longest
time I wanted to get my hair cut, as I said. Because I was so tenderheaded and I wanted to get it cut. And the style was short. This was
early days of Elvis Presley and rock and roll. And I wanted short hair
and finally after many years, I was allowed to cut. And so I had the
old-fashioned, what was then called a duck tail, which was very, very
short. So yes, in a little bit I realized that it was the beginning of my
hoodlum years.
In this picture though, you look like you “femmed up” quite a bit. This is a
beautiful bouffant hairdo. What year did you graduate?
I graduated high school in 1963.
1963 from Walters?
From Walters, high school.
And you were a beautiful young woman.
Thank you. Thank you.
Now let me tell you, we're going to rush on to college. Here you are, I
believe this is maybe your graduation picture from college.
That was my freshman year. There's one year between those two.
Little country girl and you went to school where? What college?
I went to, started out at Oklahoma College for Women, which was all
women way back in the day, which had I known, really known back then,
I could have had them all.
And going back through all of the pictures and realizing all of the lesbians
there were.
Yeah, I said I could have had them all.
And where was the school?

5

�The school was in Chickasha, Oklahoma College for Women, which
after two years, my junior year, they decided to let boys into the school
and it became Oklahoma College of Liberal Arts.
And what did you study?
Let's see, the first two years was music, voice, women as voice major.
Then switched over to music education. Then switched to business, spent
a year as a business major. Then went back to music, I missed it too
much. Then I transferred to colleges for a year, went out to Weatherford,
and then came back and in 1969 graduated from Oklahoma College of
Liberal Arts with my bachelor's degree in music education. And became
a school teacher.
And became a school teacher. Now where was your first assignment?
What was your first school to teach at?
The very first school I taught in was in Bartlesville at Madison Junior
High.
And from there you went?
Then I moved back to Duncan so I could be closer to my parents because
they were getting older and being an only child, I felt obligated to them
or wanted to be closer. So I moved back to Duncan, taught there for eight
years. And then moved to Locust Grove, Oklahoma.
You told me an interesting story, I want to cover this. This is in Duncan,
Oklahoma. Now let's real quickly, you have finished college. Had you had
any kind of romantic relationship with another woman prior to that?
I was getting ready to go out and do my student teaching. I finished the
class work. Went out to do my, was getting ready to go do the student
teaching. There was a young lady I had met there at college playing
bridge with. And she had worked in the cerebral policy center in Norman
the previous summer. And I kept wanting to go visit her kids that she had
that summer. And so she finally agreed to allow me to go see her
children, her kids as she called them. And she was a paraplegic, which
meant she was in a wheelchair. She had polio. The cerebral palsy kids
really related to her very well. They did things for her that the other
teachers were trying to get the kids to. But because they responded to it,
they could identify with her. They did things for her that they wouldn't do
for others. So anyway, didn't go there. We ended up spending, as a
celebration of finishing all my class work, ended up spending the night.
Went out for a fancy dinner, went to Oklahoma City, spent the night.
And when I awoke the next morning, I had some souvenirs on my neck,
6

�also known as hickeys. And I had to get back to Chickasha to move out
of the dorm and back home to my parents to do my student teaching. I
took a lot of makeup. And thank goodness for the old days of hand stick
that covered it very well.
So that was your first relationship.
That was my first relationship. And from there, we continued on and I
was with that person for five years.
And then what I want to bring out is in this story, you were in Duncan.
That was the scandalous part that we wanted to hear.
So very good.
You ended up in Duncan. And I believe you mentioned to me that you
were in a relationship. You had a companion when you were teaching at
Duncan. And then you tell this story about a young man who also taught.
Yes.
Now tell us a little bit about that in this picture here. Here, Carolyn is in
front of an AIDS quilt. And I want her to tell a little bit about her years at
Duncan and about her relationship and then her relationship with another
colleague who also was gay.
Yes, I was very proud of this picture. I was very proud when the AIDS
quilt was brought here to Tulsa and I had the honor, knew someone who
could ask to bring a certain panel in. And I wanted to see Joe's panel.
The panel was for Joe Dodson that I had taught with in Duncan. He was
gay. I was a lesbian. And back in those days, one could not be out. So
that was one of the reasons you could lose your job. You could be
dismissed as a teacher without anything had to be written up. I mean,
they just let you go. So it was on the books. It was definitely on the
Oklahoma education books. Not just on the local level, but on state level.
(Editors Note: Oklahoma removed its ban on gay teachers in 1985)
Anyway, Joe was a science teacher. I was a music teacher. And when I
first saw him, I thought, yes, I could tell. The gaydar went off. And as I
said, became acquainted with him. We had quite the relationship as far
as the straight teachers community went on in that we were considered
more or less a little couple. And when we could invite guests, I mean,
when there would be occasions, you know, we bring your spouse or
whatever, I would invite his boyfriend as my date. He would invite my
girlfriend. So we double dated a lot. And then he died of AIDS. And then
he changed schools. And unfortunately, yes, he did pass away from
AIDS.
7

�And you specifically wanted his quilt brought to Tulsa?
I wanted his panel brought in and to read on his panel and to see where
the teachers from Moore had finally come around and they signed his
panel. They were very supportive later on. But in the early days, it was
completely unknown.
You were in Duncan and then we have lots of pictures here that I believe
these were schoolteacher pictures. And you left Duncan and eventually you
came to...
Locust Grove.
And how many years were you in Locust Grove?
I taught school in Locust Grove for 17 years.
Seventeen years. And is that where you began to get connected with the
Tulsa gay community? When you were living in Locust Grove?
It was. In the fact of, as I referred to it quite often, the hinterlands.
After being in Duncan around auto money, where the children drove a
lot better cars than the teachers did, naturally. It was like stepping
back in history 70 or 80 years because this was a very small
community. We had more student enrollment was larger than the
town's population because it's an auto recreation area. Everybody
lives out in the country. They don't live in town proper. As I said, there
was nothing to do out there.
So you come to Tulsa. It's only 45 minutes.
Well, back in those days, it was an hour because they didn't have the
turnpike like they do now. It was the old highway 33 with all the crooks.
Curves from Locust Grove to Chouteau.
She goes many times.
Once even in snow and ice.
Now you came to Tulsa and you got involved in the gay community. I
understand that you were really involved at MCC, Metropolitan
Community Church. You want to talk a little bit about that?
Yes, I was very fortunate. I was raised, my mother was Pentecostal. I was
raised Pentecostal as in Church of God, Assembly of God, the old
8

�fashioned holy roaders as they had been called or you would hear of. But
anyway, I was excited to find out that there was a church that accepted
gays and lesbians. There was a huge, I mean, we had all been raised in a
church, whether it be Baptist, Presbyterian, Christian, Catholic, I don't
care what religion. We had some sort of religious background. I had
mine. Fortunately, I had been given the opportunity to think for myself
and accept the others. And with my college and my music, I had already
been associated with Christian Church as choir director. I had been an
organist for Methodist Church. I had been choir director for
Presbyterian Church. So, I mean, it all came down to we all had a same
belief. We all believe in the higher being, whether you call it Buddha,
God, whatever. And I just had this openness. I was fortunate enough to
be able to open my mind and say, OK, we're all believing the same thing.
And we're not going to, anytime you get two people together, at some
point, I don't care how much alike they are, you're going to find
differences and accept differences. Know that we can agree to disagree.
We don't have to go to this city over it.
Very good. So you got involved. You got involved in the MCC church and
were involved in their music program.
Yes. Being the musician, either singing or playing the piano or
sometimes the organ. Anyway, yes. We directed some choirs and y'all
did some traveling. We would travel. I just had the opportunity with
my music to be involved with church, go and sing, go and play,
fellowship. Met many wonderful people and just, it's been great, it's
been an opportunity to meet people from around the world. And with
MCC I did have the opportunity to go not only to regional conferences,
but to go to the international conference one year in LA. And that
particular year they decided, I said they, meaning the immigration
service decided not to allow some of the representatives from foreign
countries who were HIV positive, they would not allow them into the
country. (Editors Note: In 1987 the US added HIV to its list of
contagious diseases and instituted a travel ban for all travelers with
HIV. It was officially lifted on January 4, 2010)
To attend the international conference of the MCC?
Right.
The fellowship. And here you are, this is in a picture in Los Angeles where
they're picketing in the streets.
We, they arranged and hired some buses, took us by bus from the hotel
downtown to the INA, the immigration services, and we staged a protest.
And it was wonderful and I felt, and I still feel very honored to have been
9

�there, to go through that experience of knowing that we were standing up
for people who were not HIV positive. We were not allowed in our
country. Here we are supposed to be so free and so accepting. And yet
these, there were people held out of the country from coming simply
because they had AIDS. It didn't matter, they had their medication, so on
and so forth. They were not contagious. And most of these would have
been ministers, wouldn't they, coming from foreign countries?
Yes, a lot of them would have been ministers. In this picture, the signs say,
let my people in, don't test our guests. Carolyn, you realize that this protest,
it was the first year they had the ban, wasn't it the federal government
banned anyone from coming into the country?
It's the first one that I know of.
And you do realize that it took decades for that ban to finally be lifted.
President Obama was one of the first things he did as the president of the
United States of America. He lifted the ban, the travel ban. So now people
from other countries who may be HIV positive, they are able to visit our
country and attend the International Fellowship of Metropolitan
Community Churches and many other congregations that are finally
opened up to gay people and their ministry within the church. So when you
think about that and what you would want to say to young people about
that and the feeling you had that day when you marched in the streets, what
would you like to say about that to young people?
If you believe in something, have the guts to stand up for it. As I said,
when you invited me here, I didn't feel like I had done that much. I was
not out in the forefront. I wasn't the ones out marching. I couldn't or I
didn't think I could. Now that I'm older, I realize that I can. And I try
and support the youth in every possible way I can. Anyone. As I said,
we've all got to start somewhere and I wish I had had the background,
someone to support me. I remember the first year, and it was before the
OKEQ, going to the Human Rights Banquet. It was during Pride and
coming to hear the guests that year. The grand marshals that year were
Olympic Gold Medalist Greg Louganis and Colonel Margarethe
Cammermeyer (Editors Note) . And to hear all of a sudden, they were
recognizing high school students for forming Gay and Straight Alliance.
To have that in the school, the children, and they didn't have to be gay
students, but there was friendly people there to support them. Going back
to Duncan, one note. I remember one student, and back then there was
also not only gay-straight, but racial. There was strictly the black
community and there was a white community. The blacks would walk as
a group. They would walk to school. And I mean, they were always in a
group. There was one young man who, unfortunately I never had the
opportunity to, but yes, looking back, he was very gay. And he was not
10

�feeling well and he got permission from his teacher to go to the
principal's office and wanted to go home. I was told, no. He said, why do
you need to go home? I have the cramps.
Excuse me, a guy doesn't have cramps, as in menstrual cramps. I'm
sorry, but just to know that there was someone there now who had moved
to the point where there were people who would support more than just
black, white, or racial differences. But straight people, knowing they
could be friends with a gay person or a lesbian. And the young people
just have no idea. They're used to having that around.
That's a very good point. Now, you talked about how in the early days, tell
me about how your first time to be in a gay pride parade, where was that
and what did that make you feel like? And why were you there in that
specific place?
Again, I went with, I did a lot with churches or ministers. My first gay
pride parade was in Oklahoma City. I had the opportunity to go with,
there was a group from the church, MCC, even though at that time here
in Tulsa we had two MCCs. There was the regular church or the
founding church, and then there was a branch-off group, Family of
Faith. I was going there with the minister to Oklahoma City for their
pride parade and to ride in the car representing a northeast part of
Oklahoma. And I felt safe in going to Oklahoma City. Even though there
would be cameras there, I knew that the news coverage or the cameras,
they would be shown in Oklahoma City. There wouldn't be people from
Locust Grove that would be able to see that. So I knew I was safe in my
job, but I felt very proud just to see people lined up up and down the
street knowing that they were supporting gay people. Then I got to go to
the first pride parade in Tulsa back when we gathered down on
Brookside, which is 33rd, 35th part of Peoria. And I was honored in
carrying the banner in front of the pick-up saying, our church. And I got
to walk all the way from 33rd, wherever we started there on Peoria, up to
31st, then we turned and went over to Riverside, then up to Riverside all
the way to Veterans Park. And it was the first parade. It was great. And
during the walk, happened to be along on the sidewalk, there was a
person that I sang with that had no idea I was a lesbian. And she came
running over, she was so excited that I was marching in the parade. And
gave me a big hug, and that meant the world, knowing that I had a
straight person that was willing to come and support me, and did support
me. And it took a lot of courage in 1999, and this organization fought for
several years to try to get permission from the city council to let us have a
parade, and every year it was voted down, and sometimes they would just
have a parade where they'd walk down the sidewalks.

11

�And so finally they got permission, and this is 1999, you were there, even
in 1999, was there a little bit of apprehension that maybe if somebody
found out about you, it would affect your...
Oh yes, it could have been dismissal, although I had tried to instill in my
students and fellow teachers, etc., the feeling that just because you were
in some sort of a march did not mean that you were gay, or like in a pride
parade, did not mean that you were gay, but that you had sympathy for
someone else. And also I want to mention during this parade, there was
quite the protest from Fred Phelps Church. I mean, there were lots and
lots of pictures, and we were told endlessly, do not make comments back
to them, do not let them get to you. Just smile and say, God loves you, I'll
pray for you, or whatever. Did not get in any kind of confrontation at all.
All right, so those were some early days, and we've talked a little bit about,
want to talk a little bit about when you first began to hear of AIDS in
Tulsa, and maybe some of the things that you were involved in in those
early days.
The first thing I remember, of course, was through church being an
MCC, and we would hear a lot about all different places in the
country. There were starting to be, even though I was not aware of
that legend here in Tulsa for several years, that we had lost people. I
can remember the early days when we used to have a gay softball
tournament, and supposedly that was how many of our first members
contracted were infected with AIDS. And the fact that some of the outof-town guests, when they came in, supposedly this was how it was
spread. So they would have came from larger urban areas, had
intimate relationships with local persons, and they were infected that
way.
So there was this theory that that's how AIDS came to Tulsa, is what you're
saying.
That's, yeah. In that, or when the people here, and unfortunately it was
men, would go to other cities such as Dallas or San Francisco or LA or
Miami or New York, where the larger communities where there was
more chance of being infected.
Yeah, and unfortunately we lost many, many good people. So it happened
here quick, and then what was Tulsa's response? Do you remember, did
y'all come together in organized groups?
The main thing I remember was the forming of the RAIN [edit comment
– Regional AIDS Interfaith Network] teams, people to go out. For those
who were infected here in Tulsa, to go out they would form huge RAIN
12

�teams to go out and help care for them. Most of the time these people
were, of course, turned away by their families. They were having trouble
finding a place to live, having someone take care of them. If they were in
any type of relationship, their partner many times just up and left. They
couldn't be associated with it. So they were isolated. They were totally
isolated.
And abandoned.
Definitely. Fortunately, a lot of different churches, not just MCC, but the
different churches would form the RAIN teams to go out and help care for
these people.
Did you, were there lots of funerals in those days?
Oh my.
And did you get asked to sing at several of those funerals? Did your choir
suffer with those funerals?
Yes. Yes to all of those. There were funerals, oh mercy, at least once a
week, sometimes two or three times a week. You mentioned Leslie
Penrose earlier. Bless her heart. I remember one year in between when
they was on AIDS Day when they would just mention the ones who had
passed, the reading of the names for that one year and present new
panels that were being made for the AIDS bill. And she had lost 40
people in that one year. And that can be devastating, not only to the
immediate family, but I don't care how you are intertwined with
someone. Our lives constantly get together. We overlap, whether it be
young, old, black, white, any type of ethnicity. We do interact with each
other and we must be accepting of one another, whether it be the, back in
the early days when it was more or less the war between the gay men and
the lesbians. We have finally learned to come together. And I mean we
were all fighting for the same thing, we were constantly fighting each
other. And I always thought that was such a shame, but we finally did get
our acts together so that we can. And today it's lesbian, gay, bisexual,
transgender, and young people today like to call themselves queer, which
is quite a bit different than what we grew up with.
That was a term of derision, wasn't it?
Oh, if you were called a queer back then, I mean that was highly
insulting.
Now, what do you think when we were talking about the AIDS and you
losing so many people in that day, what do you think about when I tell you
13

�here in the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center on the other side of these
cameras, we hang on permanent display the AIDS quilts. What do you
think about that when you can see that right here are Oklahomans, we
always request that they feature Oklahomans. What do you think when you
walk into this room and see those?
I mean, often reminded, I mean I love to look at that quilt because it
has special memories. Some of the people that are on the panels on the
quilt are people I knew.
Do you realize that sometimes we have young people under I would say 35
who come into the building and have never heard of the AIDS quilts. They
have now lived for 10 or 12 years with medication and not being so
common for it being a death sentence that it's a manageable disease, and
they don't realize that there was a time it was an epidemic. So how do you
feel about us making sure these young people know the story behind these
quills?
They've got to know. They've got to be told. They need to be made aware.
They need to be made aware of what they need to do to be safe. We all
need to be safe. I have a nephew, which unfortunately, and one of the
flyers that was sent out, whether by email or whatever, the picture used in
me was from the AIDS service last year. (Editors note Carolyn was
featured on the front page of the Tulsa World attending the World AIDS
Day memorial service)
World AIDS Day.
World AIDS Day. And yes, I was in tears. Not having any brothers or
sisters. I have a cousin whose youngest son, who is the one of the few
white heirs that has unfortunately been forsaken by his father, who I'm
happy to say has just been given an opportunity for medication and for
help, and he's moved to Hawaii. He is HIV positive. He has AIDS. Full
blown. He's stage four. But it's so interesting. I mean, so wonderful, not
just interesting, wonderful and makes me so happy to read on Facebook
of how he's just gotten back from the hospital and getting help. And they
just started his new medication regimen and to have to be able to read
and hear him say, instead of having four years to live now with this
medication, he's been given 40 years. The progression and the success as
we learn and things progress, the advances we are making in medication
now that they are finding ways of helping people. As you said, in the
early days, there wasn't any help. They tried, they didn't know anything
about it. Medications had to be made. I mean they had to find some way,
just like finding a cure for the common cold, which I know basically they
haven't done. But advances in medicine or any type of advances take
time. It takes a lot of preparation. It takes a lot of study. It takes someone
14

�stepping out, whether it be a medical researcher stepping out, taking that
extra step to think, well maybe this will work and try. And yes, it is a
series of trial and error. And back in the early days, there just wasn't the
medicines there. Thank God we have them today.
I appreciate you emphasizing. Young people need to see these AIDS quilts
and be reminded we still have a high rate of infections among young gay
men in Oklahoma. And this concerns me here at the Dennis R. Neill
Equality Center. Thank you for challenging me. I want to, as we come to a
close, I want to show this very, very elaborate picture of you dressed and
very formally. And tell me about this picture and why you're dressed in
such a dapper outfit.
Oh, dapper. But the old term for a big look. This picture was taken. I was
asked to sit and have my portrait made. This was when I was director of
the Women of Council Oak. I was the founding director. I was given the
opportunity to be the founding director of an all-women's group. Well,
no, we weren't an all-lesbian group because we had straight women. We
tried to be an open group.
And bisexual women.
And bisexual women, inviting everyone to come in.
And I think you had some transgendered women in that choir also that I'm
aware of.
No, not in the early days. Okay. But we were very open. And yes, we
would have accepted some transgendered women. I probably would have
had to find a few. But it was just a place for women to come together and
sing. The Council Oak Men's Choir, which I admired for many, many
years. I still admire and they have been great things and traveled and
represented Tulsa. Some wonderful musicians, wonderful friends.
Were you involved when they had the joint choir and did the Sing for the
Cure, came together for Breast Cancer?
That was how the formation of Women of Council Oak started. I
heard about it from word, spread word, mouth, inviting women to
come and join. And we did, we rehearsed. And it was wonderful. And
because we did have the women, sorry, thought I had to shut up.
I'm sorry.
Anyway, the women came together. And not only was the Council Oak
Men's Choir the women that we rounded up here in Tulsa or
15

�surrounding areas. There was one woman, a man and a woman that
drove from, shoot, I can't think of the name. Anyway, they drove great
distance, drove in to sing. Then the Turtle Creek Men's Choir from
Dallas and the Women's Choir from Dallas drove up and joined. And we
had this massive choir.
At the Performing Arts Center?
At the Performing Arts Center. And it was truly wonderful. And the story,
the Women's Choir of Dallas is the one that originally created the score
Sing for the Cure. They had it commissioned. And it tells the wonderful
different stories, different women, different stages of women's lives as
they were diagnosed with cancer. And sometimes the family expressions,
what they went through or getting a sentence or the diagnosis by the, a
lot of times it was like a sentence to be told, a woman to be told that no,
you're not responding to any kind of medicine or treatment. It's going to
be automatically loss of breast. And anyway, if you haven't read that
book, I would suggest that you do read it because it is a wonderful story.
And lesbians have a higher rate of breast cancer than most women.
Do you remember the thoughts of how the gay choruses were stepping
outside of the normal causes like AIDS and equal rights, and we were
aligning with the straight people finding a common goal to support? What
was your thoughts about that being a part of that?
Sing for the Cure was very special for me in that this same cousins whose
son is AIDS positive, has AIDS, his mother died from cancer. Breast
cancer. She had breast cancer was diagnosed while he was in the
military. They were sent back stateside, which I had known her all
through school. And having lost her and singing for her funeral was very
special, very hard emotionally. But yet I wanted to do Sing for the Cure
in her remembrance. And that was my passion for doing that. Music has
wonderful life. I mean, it's opened up so many things for me. I can go on
with all the, which we won't even have time to go into any of that. But
music is such an opportunity. So many different areas. I don't care what
your desire is. I mean, what kind you like. You can always find
something that can be meaningful. And I believe me, I don't understand
all the rap music. But all I can say is that it is important to the young
people. It says something to them.
Carolyn, it has been incredible today to be with you. You're my prettiest
guest. Because up to this time, I've always been interviewing men. Now,
you don't have them on today, but you are known across Tulsa for your
fingernails during Pride. And what do you always have your fingernails
done? How do you have them done for Pride?

16

�My fingernails are always done in the rainbow colors.
And you not only share those with Tulsa. You go to Wichita. You went to
Wichita. Travels regionally. Now, Carolyn, there's something I want us to,
as we close, I want us to think about. And this just came to me. You were
an educator for decades. How do you feel when you're in the Dennis R.
Neill Equality Center visiting with me yesterday and one of your former
students from Locust Grove is sitting around the corner in his office and
comes in and now he's an adult, openly gay man serving on the Board of
Oklahomans for Equality seeking equal rights for lesbian, gay, bisexual,
and transgendered Oklahomans and working closely with our allies. How
does that make you feel? He walked in. I just want to share with our
audience. He walked in. He saw you. You just grabbed each other. He was
in my office. And you didn't realize that Matthew DeCamp was right
around the corner. How does that make you feel to know that your students
have grown up and taken their place in this fight for equality?
It makes me very proud. And I'm just so happy they had the opportunity
to be able to go out and say, yes, I'm gay, I'm lesbian, I am proud of who
I am because I was not given that opportunity. I wish I had known. I
wish I could have encouraged more people. And speaking of that, and
former students, there's a young man in Dallas who, which when they
sing for the Cure in Dallas, and we had gone out after rehearsal to one
of the bars, Sue Ellen's, and was sitting out there and all of a sudden,
sitting there with a former high school classmate that is a lesbian, yes,
and with my partner and the others that are someone else that had gone
down with us to sing, and all of a sudden in the open area you hear,
granny! And it echoes out. And it was one of my former students, a
younger man, who was part of the group that called me granny from the
time I was in my 30s and 40s, many years ago. But, and yes, he had gone
through school, graduated from Locust Grove, got married, had children,
came around and realized that he wasn't happy in that situation and
decided to come out as a gay man and to be so accepted and to know that
we could still sing. And one of his statements, and I was, why didn't you
tell me back then?
And I'm saying, oh honey, there was no way I could have. Yes, I knew
back then. Certainly he had all of the signs, he was very fashionable, he
didn't catch his hair, he always had to have a certain type of shoes or he
had to be dressed a certain way. He was very fashion conscious. Oh,
extremely fashion conscious. Which is not always an indication that
someone's gay. And I'm going to point that out, not anything else, but
back several years ago it was, you had to have a certain shirt or you had
to wear a certain kind of, you had to wear certain name brands to be
considered fashionable or be part of the in-group. But he kept saying,
why didn't you tell me back then?
17

�And I'm saying, honey, I couldn't, there was no way. I couldn't even say
that I was gay or lesbian. It would have been my job. I could not have
mentioned it in the classroom. And now, as I said, the first time I heard
him say there was a gay-straight alliance in school, I was so excited they
could even talk about it in school. And today in Tulsa Public Schools and
in Union Public Schools, openly gay teachers can, if they see a young
gay student, they can make sure they're aware of where they can get
helps and resources. And you may have a gay teacher talking with one of
their gay students about, are you going to Pride this weekend?
How does that make you feel to see that we've come that far where the
teacher can actually now help their students as they think about their life
and their career and being open about who they are? How does that make
you feel?
I wish I had the opportunity. I think it is wonderful because there's
enough pressure still, particularly here in Oklahoma, from the mindset
of our people that it's still wrong. You can't be gay. You can't be a
lesbian. You're never going to amount to anything. All the negative
things that are done. There is no support, or there has been in the past,
so little support for gay and lesbian students. And to have someone
knowing that you could go and say, hey, I think I may be gay, even to
question. Have that opportunity. And it's much the same way, it's like,
well, and I'm going to get back into the religious part of it, but to have
the churches where you could go and say, I may be, I'm really attracted
to this person of the same gender, and say, it's okay, you can still be a
Christian, or you can still be a member of the faith. And it's the same
thing in school, just to have that person knowing that you can go and
talk to them about anything. That was what I always tried to prove to my
students. I don't have to agree with what you're doing. I don't have to, I
know some of the consequences, but yes, unfortunately you're going to
be like the two-year-old that has to go up and touch the stove when it's on
and learn that hot and no means that it's going to hurt if you touch it
anyway. You've got to have that experience. And just to know that there
might be a gay or lesbian teacher that they could go and talk to about, I
think I might be, or I'm really attracted, or I had this problem because of.
I'm so inspired by the bullying, because there for so many years has been
so much bullying, and so anti-bullying. I want us to get that started. I
mean, it's the same thing like our early years, when people, whether it be
the living with AIDS, so many deaths caused by AIDS, or just the
bombing of churches back in the early days. Gay churches. Gay
churches. It had to start somewhere, but it's also had to come around and
someone had to stand up and say, stop. And the young people now have
so much, fewer things, but yet the opportunity to say, no, that's wrong.
We had to listen to the queer or the off-color jokes about queer, about
18

�homosexuality, about lesbianism. We couldn't say anything, and now it's
like, no, no, no. I find that offensive. And we must do more for our kids
who are being bullied in schools.
Definitely. Loss of one life is too many. Carolyn, thank you so much for
being with us here today on Vintage. You are a vintage. You are a special
creation, greatly treasured, and you'll never go out of fashion, right?
Thank you so much for being with us today, and thank you, Bob, for being
our translator today, for those of you who are hearing impaired. We've
been broadcasting from the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center, and this has
been Carolyn Wiley, our special guest. You didn't have to keep me going.
You didn't go yes or no. I just loved you.
All right, thank you so much.

Addendum:
Carolyn Wiley Oral History Interview May 26, 2026
Toby Jenkins: Carolyn Wiley on May 26th, 2026. Today we're
interviewing Carolyn and I want her to talk a little bit about her
experience with the Imperial Court. Carolyn, what was your official
title with the Imperial Court?
Carolyn Wiley: With the court itself, I never had a title other than
when I, after I ran for, as a candidate to be the Empress for all of
Oklahoma. And that meant that I was represented as when we went to
court functions, I could be recognized as the head of the Imperial
Court of Oklahoma
Toby Jenkins: The Empress of all Oklahoma. And do you remember
that year?
Carolyn Wiley: I'm thinking it's around 65 to 70.
Toby Jenkins: So would it have been about like 2013 and 2014?
Carolyn Wiley: Before that. Reign VI Absolute Empress Carolyn
“Cougar Anne” Wiley

19

�Toby Jenkins: Okay. Right. I'll research that and find out for sure. And
we'll make sure that's a part of your record.
Carolyn Wiley: Well, to find when I took Bill [Francisco] and we went
to New York.
Toby Jenkins: Well, I know when that was. That was in 2019. I just was
trying to remember when you were crowned the Empress of all
Oklahoma. I was there. So I remember that night when you were
crowned. It was at the Hyatt Regency Hotel. And you had, do you
remember you had fallen and broke your arm?
Carolyn Wiley: Yep.
Toby Jenkins: And you went ahead through the whole coronation with
a broken arm and did not go to the hospital.
Carolyn Wiley: Until after it was over, we had things to do.
Toby Jenkins: People to see. And so what were your duties as
Empress?
Carolyn Wiley: Just to represent the court wherever I went. Whether it
be here in, now Sand Springs. Tulsa, Oklahoma City. To say nothing of
all the courts I visited in Texas, there are nine courts in Texas and I
went to all of them.
Toby Jenkins: And so for our viewers, can you tell us what the Imperial
Court is and what its mission is and how it was started?
Toby Jenkins: It was started by Jose…
Carolyn Wiley: No, it was started by Kris Kohl.
Toby Jenkins: Well, here in Oklahoma, we're talking about the
Imperial Court National. It was started by a person in California.
Carolyn Wiley: Yeah, Jose's great poohpah.
Toby Jenkins: Yeah, I'll look that up. So you became the Empress, and
so if you went to other courts.
Carolyn Wiley: Yes.
Toby Jenkins: Traveled to other cities, you represented Oklahoma.
Carolyn Wiley: Traveled everywhere from New York to LA.

20

�Toby Jenkins: I think you used to go to the Equality Gala, didn't you?
And have to represent the Imperial Court at the Equality Gala?
Carolyn Wiley: Yes.
Toby Jenkins: Jose Sarris founded the Imperial Court System in 1965
in California to raise money for LGBTQ activism. And he was known as
Mama Jose or is that what it was? Mama? He had been the first openly
gay candidate to run for public office in 1961.
Carolyn Wiley: No, he was just how he did it.
Toby Jenkins: The Widow Norton. And he founded that. He was a
performer. And it's modeled after the European court system. So it has
kings and queens and empresses and ladies and lords and dukes and
duchesses. And Carolyn was an empress for Oklahoma.
Carolyn Wiley: Okay, I was Empress Number Six. When the court was
founded, I was number six to run for the top position.
Toby Jenkins: Yeah, and Kris Kohl founded it. Famous drag queen here
in Oklahoma who now lives in Missouri. So we talked a little bit about
how you would travel to other places. Tell us about when you and Bill
Francisco went to New York City for the 50th anniversary of Stonewall
and the New York City pride parade. Talk about that.
Carolyn Wiley: Oh, wow, what a weekend. Of course, the main basic
part was: just what do you take? I mean, there's just so many clothes
and so much. Of course, being a part, as a part of being of the court
system, you were required, or it was preferred, that you wore a crown,
that you had a sash or some sort of identification where you were
from. Basically I just went as myself and they couldn't figure out I was
from Oklahoma. Heck with them. I didn't have my Texas drawl which I
could have, and I have used the drawl a few times when I'd go to Texas
to some of the different court functions which I still miss now.
Toby Jenkins: You were in New York City and you were with Bill
Francisco, I was there. Many people in New York City for that event,
oh, just a few thousand.
Toby Jenkins: Talk about a million closer.
Carolyn Wiley: Yeah, that too. But as far as going to the reception
itself, it was held at one of the big hotels. They had made that all,
made all those arrangements, so everything was set up for it and you
just had to introduce yourself or let it be known who you were. So you
get in and, as Empress, I got to say I'm here.
21

�Toby Jenkins: Did you get to visit the Stonewall Bar and the Stonewall
Memorial?
Carolyn Wiley: Oh, that's where it was held.
Toby Jenkins: Yeah, oh, very good. Were y'all in the parade? Did you
get to be in the parade?
Carolyn Wiley: No, but we walked several blocks just to go so that we
could see it and we had gone into... I mean Bill and I had gone from the
hotel down to that place. There were people everywhere, they had all
the roads, all the streets blocked off
Bill had forgotten something, left something in his room,
so we had to go back to the hotel and get his room key so he could go
get whatever and just had a good time. I think I of course got to meet
people like I would meet anyone new, just doing what came naturally.
Toby Jenkins: Representing Oklahoma, the Imperial Court of
Oklahoma. And you were there for that 50th anniversary. Your
thoughts about being there at the 50th anniversary of Stonewall. What
were your thoughts about that? Being a person from Oklahoma who
had been a schoolteacher, who did work with young people, what
were your thoughts about how significant that moment was?
Carolyn Wiley: It was actually a wonderful moment and many
thoughts went through your mind just to know that you were in New
York, that I was in New York, not necessarily that I was representing
Oklahoma, but knowing I was representing Oklahoma, but just to be
there. And, of course, Queen Mother was there.
It was so good and they had different people and from all
age groups. They're talking about their experiences within the LGBT
etc. community and what they had done. There was one young man
there and he was like in high school, representing and he had just
done wonderful things. It was set up towards running or we were trying
to represent just like they did in England.
Toby Jenkins: Yeah, European Court. We were joking that Empress
Wiley, I guess is Carolyn Wiley, Empress Six. We think she looks a lot
like Queen Elizabeth when she wears her crown. So is it heavy?
Carolyn Wiley: No, not really. After you're sitting in a court function,
whatever it is, wherever you are, it gets heavy after a while.
Toby Jenkins: Who made your crown? Do you remember?
22

�Carolyn Wiley: No, I ordered it out of the booklet where you could get
crowns.
Toby Jenkins: So it wasn't somebody that made it special for you?
Carolyn Wiley: No.
Toby Jenkins: All right. So you were talking about being in New York
City for Stonewall and the Imperial Court and you got to meet a lot of
people. Any other thoughts about that moment in 2019 when Bill
Francisco, who I guess we would call him your sidekick. He was your
what?
Carolyn Wiley: My escort.
Toby Jenkins: Your escort. He was your escort. I think they call
themselves royalties, whenever they have an escort, they call them
their consort. He was your consort.
Carolyn Wiley: Yeah, okay. We did a lot of consorting around.
Toby Jenkins: So your thoughts about the Imperial Court, do you stay
in touch with those folks? Do they come see you sometimes?
Carolyn Wiley: There are a few of them that I do see quite often. I
know we had a coronation, although it's been about almost a year
since I went. It was just good to see people all over. I mean, that's one
of the functions as even a current or a past Imperial Court member.
You get to go and you get to see all these people that travel from all
over. They've been invited throughout the years or however long it's
been.
Hopefully your royalty, the current or past members of
Emperor and Empress do travel and get to go and meet other people
and invite them to your coronation.
Toby Jenkins: What do you feel like the strongest, most important part
of the court system is, the Imperial Court? Why do you feel like it's so
important to the LGBTQ community?
Carolyn Wiley: Well, as I said, the Imperial Court was set up to invite
people or get to know people from all over the world, from wherever.
They come in and they get to tell you a little bit about their court
system and invite you to their facilities. And the one invitation that I got
was...actually several times, but to go to their coronation and be with
their people was Hawaii. And I never got to go to Hawaiian coronation.
But I certainly got to know some of their people very well.
23

�Toby Jenkins: But you traveled all over the country, didn't you? I
mean, you went from coast to coast, because you went to California,
didn't you?
Carolyn Wiley: Oh, yes.
Toby Jenkins: And you went to New York, so that's coast to coast.
Carolyn Wiley: Well, it was just what was available at the time of what
was scheduled. I mean, everything is set up throughout the year, so
you get to pick and choose where you want to go or where you want to
go.
Toby Jenkins: Now, do you feel like it was helpful as we all are fighting
for equality even harder today, because we may lose it? Did you feel it
was important for you to build strong relationships with other states,
other cities, other areas?
Carolyn Wiley: Well, particularly those close by to Oklahoma here,
because it was so easy to hop in the car and away I go. Knowing there
are seven courts within the state of Texas, which is a good-sized
amount of property, to make all seven courts and their coronations
was a great experience.
Toby Jenkins: So, as we finish, I wonder, do you have any message for
your friends who are still in the Imperial Court, those who come after
you, the young people who are now the emperors and the empresses?
Do you have a message for young people today that you'd like to give
them?
Carolyn Wiley: Yes, be active and don't ever feel like you're meeting a
new person, because it's only by meeting new people that you get to
make new friends. And personally, I would say one of my greatest
experiences was being a member of the Imperial Court and traveling
all over. Because not only did I make all seven courts in Texas, I've
been to California, Colorado, Arizona. I got to go around.
Toby Jenkins: Well, thank you so much for making time with us today
and that we got to see Empress Six with her crown on.
Carolyn Wiley: Oh, yeah. Woppie.
Toby Jenkins: It's May 26th, 2026, in Sand Springs, at the palace of
Empress Six, Carolyn Wiley.
Carolyn Wiley: Also known as the nursing home, but it's okay. Yeah,
and away I go.
24

�Toby Jenkins: So we were talking about how hard we are fighting. We
just didn't ever dream we would have to fight so hard for our rights
again. What were your thoughts? You said something that was really
profound.
Carolyn Wiley: Wow, I said something profound. No, never did we
realize, and even I at my age, which is getting closer to 80 all the time,
never did I realize, even in my advanced age as one of the older
members of the Imperial court system here in Oklahoma, that, as you
said, everything is toward the younger people, getting them involved.
And yes, we want to get them involved because we want someone to
carry it on.
Toby Jenkins: Yeah, but we've got such a hostile government that's
trying to take away our rights again. And you said, what did you say
about that?
Carolyn Wiley: I don't know, what did I say? I forgot.
Toby Jenkins: You told us that we're just going to have to keep fighting,
and you're willing to fight even at your age.
Carolyn Wiley: You bet. Always willing. I can’t get around as much as
I used to, but it's like, get out of my way, I am coming through.
Toby Jenkins: Very good. So we've got to keep fighting, don't we?
Carolyn Wiley: We must keep fighting. There are too many people
involved. It would impact them, with them not even being able to fight.
We must go ahead and fight and win our battles.

25

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                    <text>10 pages of an annual report of Twisted Arts' accomplishments over 2024, including an OKEQ fundraiser and the Twisted Arts Film Festival.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Transcript:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2024 ANNUAL REPORT&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;LETTER FROM THE FOUNDER&lt;br /&gt;Reflecting on the past year at Twisted Arts, I am deeply grateful and proud. Twisted Arts began as a vision to create an inclusive and vibrant arts community in Tulsa, and this year, we saw that vision come to life in impactful ways. Through the dedication of our community, the support of our generous sponsors, and the hard work of the Board of Directors, we've built a space that celebrates the richness of 2SLGBTQ+ voices and brings people together through the power of art.&lt;br /&gt;From the Pride Kick-off and Two-Spirit Fest to the Transgender Day of Visibility, our year-round initiatives have provided a platform for local artists, fostered essential conversations, and celebrated our community’s resilience. Twisted Arts is more than an arts organization; it’s an economic contributor, with four years of activities adding over $640,000 to Tulsa’s arts economy.&lt;br /&gt;As we look to the future, your continued support ensures we can keep providing these vital experiences, honoring our commitment to inclusivity, creativity, and community empowerment. Together, we are building a legacy that will uplift artists and allies. Thank you for standing with us and being part of this journey.&lt;br /&gt;With gratitude,&lt;br /&gt;[Kevin Lovelace's signature]&lt;br /&gt;Kevin Lovelace&lt;br /&gt;Founder, Twisted Arts&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;YEAR-END REVIEW&lt;br /&gt;Accomplishments:&lt;br /&gt;• Gayest Dog In Tulsa Fundraiser: Raised $750 for Pause4Paws.&lt;br /&gt;• Fundraising for Oklahomans for Equality: Raised $1,300.&lt;br /&gt;• Community Engagement: Hosted two screenings at The Starlite.&lt;br /&gt;• Drag Me to the Movies: Hosted three sold-out screenings featuring nine local performers&lt;br /&gt;• Trans Day Of Visibility: Featured eight local performers.&lt;br /&gt;• Pride Kickoff: Welcomed over 400 attendees on the rooftop of Tulsa Artist Fellowship.&lt;br /&gt;• 2-Spirit Festival: The Harmony Of Duality exhibition at Oklahomans for the Humanities drew over 725 attendees, showcasing nine 2-Spirit artists, making it the venue's third highest attended opening.&lt;br /&gt;• Drag the Voter: An event focused on registering new voters for this election.&lt;br /&gt;• Total 2024 attendance: Over 2,000 attendees to all of our events.&lt;br /&gt;• Tulsa Visual Arts Economic Impact Calculator: $158,145&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;TWISTED ARTS ANNUAL REPORT 2024&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Accomplishments&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;OKEQ Fundraiser&lt;br /&gt;February 21, 2024 - Screening of PUMP UP THE VOLUME to raise$1,300 [sic] for Oklahomans for Equality.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gayest Dog in Tulsa Fundraiser&lt;br /&gt;June 22, 2024 - The inaugural Gayest Dog in Tulsa Pageant at Belefonte raised $750 for Pause4Paws animal foster shelter.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Drag Me to the Movies&lt;br /&gt;Our newest program, all sold-out shows, pairs parody performances with the films: But I’m a Cheerleader, Steel Magnolias, &amp;amp; Death Becomes Her.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;TWISTED ARTS ANNUAL REPORT 2024&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Events&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Community Screenings at the Starlite&lt;br /&gt;Free community screenings bringing underground films, typically unavailable in theaters, to enthusiastic audiences at the Starlite.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Transgender Day of Visibility&lt;br /&gt;This year’s Transgender Day of Visibility event at OKEQ featured eight talented local transgender artists, performers, and musicians.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2-Spirit Fest&lt;br /&gt;Our First Friday exhibition showcased nine 2-spirit visual artists on Friday, followed by 20+ performers, artists, and panelists on Saturday.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;TWISTED ARTS ANNUAL REPORT 2024&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More Events&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Pride Kickoff&lt;br /&gt;We kicked off Pride with eight local performers, 15 vendors, and empanadas from Que Gusto on the rooftop of Tulsa Artist Fellowship&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Drag the Vote&lt;br /&gt;New voters were registered at the Colony’s first-ever Drag the Vote event, encouraging civic engagement and community involvement.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Twisted Arts Film Festival&lt;br /&gt;The Twisted Arts Film Festival hosted over 350 attendees and featured two directors, engaging Q&amp;amp;A panels, and a memorable closing night party with a special performance by Kalup Linzy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;FINANCIAL STATEMENT&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;2024 Financial Summary&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In 2024, Twisted Arts operated on a budget under $50,000, reflecting our commitment to maximizing impact with limited resources. Our total revenue was $49,135, composed of $4,000 in sponsorships, $40,000 in grants, $2,635 from ticket sales, and $2,500 from individual donations. Expenses totaled $47,109, with key allocations including $9,899 for artist fees, $8,772 for venue rental, and $3,909 for publicity and advertising. Despite modest funding, we successfully supported a variety of festival programs and events, including artist travel, lodging, and outreach activities, all within a lean budget.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;2024 Economic Impact&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2024 Twisted Arts programs generated substantial economic benefits for the Tulsa community. By using the Economic Impact Calculator and applying a multiplier of seven to the original figures, our festival’s total economic impact for the year is estimated at $158,145. This includes support for seven full-time equivalent jobs, $88,529 in resident household income, $11,571 in local government revenue, and $15,190 in state government revenue. These figures underscore Twisted Arts’ vital role in contributing both culturally and economically to the Tulsa area.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;FUTURE OUTLOOK&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2025 GOALS&lt;br /&gt;In celebration of our fifth anniversary, Twisted Arts is setting ambitious goals to expand both our programs and community impact, aiming for a total income of $110,000 in 2025 through increased sponsorships, grants, ticket sales, and donations. This funding will allow us to allocate $40,000 toward artist fees, supporting more local artists and elevating program quality. Additional resources will enhance outreach, publicity, staffing, and fundraising, sustaining growth and expanding our reach. With a total budget of $100,000, we are excited to mark this milestone year with innovative programming, deeper community engagement, and expanded opportunities for local talent.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;FIFTH ANNIVERSARY&lt;br /&gt;BIRTHDAY BASH&lt;br /&gt;Twisted Arts is excited to present Margaret Cho live at Cain's Ballroom on April 9, 2025, as part of our fifth-anniversary celebration and our first-ever fundraiser! This event aims to raise funds for Girls Rock!, a new youth-centered arts and social justice program empowering young people through music and creative expression. Margaret Cho’s "Live and LIVID" tour promises a night filled with humor and bold commentary, tackling issues like homophobia, sexism, and racism. As Cho celebrates 40 years in comedy, she invites audiences to “come through” for an unforgettable experience. This fundraiser will set the stage for Girls Rock! to provide invaluable resources, mentorship, and creative opportunities for Tulsa’s youth, helping to cultivate the next generation of artists and activists. We look forward to making this night one of impact, connection, and celebration.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Thank You SPONSORS!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We extend our heartfelt thanks to our generous sponsors for making the Twisted Arts fourth-anniversary celebration and our first-ever fundraiser a reality. Your support is instrumental in helping us continue our core programs, including the Twisted Arts Film Festival, 2-Spirit Fest, and community outreach events that bring LGBTQ2S+ arts and voices to the forefront. Thanks to your commitment, we are able to provide impactful programming, foster connections, and celebrate diverse stories that inspire and unite our community. Your partnership fuels our mission and encourages a future filled with creativity, inclusivity, and cultural enrichment. We are truly grateful for your belief in our vision and for standing with us as we grow and make a lasting impact.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Presenting Sponsor&lt;br /&gt;GEORGE KAISER FAMILY FOUNDATION&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;A supporting organization of Tulsa Community Foundation&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Executive Producers&lt;br /&gt;OKLAHOMA ARTS COUNCIL&lt;br /&gt;VISION TULSA&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Producers&lt;br /&gt;oklahomans for equality&lt;br /&gt;Ralph and Frances McGill Foundation&lt;br /&gt;The Anne &amp;amp; Henry Zarrow FOUNDATION&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;CONTACT US&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;EXPRESS. REPRESENT. SASHAY.&lt;br /&gt;TWISTED&lt;br /&gt;OCTOBER 2-5, 2024&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;TWISTED ARTS&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Phone/&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(918) 221-5565&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Email/&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;kevin@twistedfest.org&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Website/&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;www.twistedarts.org&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Address/&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;P.O. Box 14476&lt;br /&gt;Tulsa, OK 74159</text>
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                    <text>2024
ANNUAL
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�LETTER
FROM THE
FOUNDER
KEVIN
LOVELACE
Reflecting on the past year at Twisted Arts, I am deeply grateful and proud. Twisted Arts began as a
vision to create an inclusive and vibrant arts community in Tulsa, and this year, we saw that vision come to
life in impactful ways. Through the dedication of our community, the support of our generous
sponsors, and the hard work of the Board of Directors, we've built a space that celebrates the richness of
2SLGBTQ+ voices and brings people together through the power of art.
From the Pride Kick-off and Two-Spirit Fest to the Transgender Day of Visibility, our year-round
initiatives have provided a platform for local artists, fostered essential conversations, and celebrated
our community’s resilience. Twisted Arts is more than an arts organization; it’s an economic
contributor, with four years of activities adding over $640,000 to Tulsa’s arts economy.
As we look to the future, your continued support ensures we can keep providing these vital
experiences, honoring our commitment to inclusivity, creativity, and community empowerment. Together,
we are building a legacy that will uplift artists and allies. Thank you for standing with us and being part of
this journey.
With gratitude,

Kevin Lovelace
Founder, Twisted Arts

�YEAR-END REVIEW
Accomplishments:
• Gayest Dog In Tulsa Fundraiser: Raised $750 for Pause4Paws.
• Fundraising for Oklahomans for Equality: Raised $1,300.
• Community Engagement: Hosted two screenings at The Starlite.
• Drag Me to the Movies: Hosted three sold-out screenings featuring nine local performers
• Trans Day Of Visibility: Featured eight local performers.
• Pride Kickoff: Welcomed over 400 attendees on the rooftop of Tulsa Artist Fellowship.
• 2-Spirit Festival: The Harmony Of Duality exhibition at Oklahomans for the Humanities drew over
725 attendees, showcasing nine 2-Spirit artists, making it the venue's third highest attended opening.
• Drag the Voter: An event focused on registering new voters for this election.
• Total 2024 attendance: Over 2,000 attendees to all of our events.
• Tulsa Visual Arts Economic Impact Calculator: $158,145

�Accomplishments

ANNUAL REPORT 2024

OKEQ Fundraiser

February 21, 2024 - Screening of PUMP UP THE VOLUME to raise$1,300
for Oklahomans for Equality.

Gayest Dog in Tulsa Fundraiser

June 22, 2024 - The inaugural Gayest Dog in Tulsa Pageant at Belefonte
raised $750 for Pause4Paws animal foster shelter.

TWISTED ARTS

Drag Me to the Movies

Our newest program, all sold-out shows, pairs parody performances with the films:
But I’m a Cheerleader, Steel Magnolias, &amp; Death Becomes Her.

�Events

ANNUAL REPORT 2024

Community Screenings at the Starlite

Free community screenings bringing underground films, typically unavailable in
theaters, to enthusiastic audiences at the Starlite.

Transgender Day of Visibility

This year’s Transgender Day of Visibility event at OKEQ featured eight
talented local transgender artists, performers, and musicians.

TWISTED ARTS

2-Spirit Fest

Our First Friday exhibition showcased nine 2-spirit visual artists on Friday,
followed by 20+ performers, artists, and panelists on Saturday.

�More Events

ANNUAL REPORT 2024

Pride Kickoff

We kicked off Pride with eight local performers, 15 vendors, and empanadas
from Que Gusto on the rooftop of Tulsa Artist Fellowship

Drag the Vote

New voters were registered at the Colony’s first-ever Drag the Vote event,
encouraging civic engagement and community involvement.

TWISTED ARTS

Twisted Arts Film Festival

The Twisted Arts Film Festival hosted over 350 attendees and featured two
directors, engaging Q&amp;A panels, and a memorable closing night party with a special
performance by Kalup Linzy.

�FINANCIAL
STATEMENT
2024 Financial Summary
In 2024, Twisted Arts operated on a budget under $50,000, reflecting our
commitment to maximizing impact with limited resources. Our total revenue was
$49,135, composed of $4,000 in sponsorships, $40,000 in grants, $2,635 from
ticket sales, and $2,500 from individual donations. Expenses totaled $47,109,
with key allocations including $9,899 for artist fees, $8,772 for venue rental, and
$3,909 for publicity and advertising. Despite modest funding, we successfully
supported a variety of festival programs and events, including artist travel,
lodging, and outreach activities, all within a lean budget.
2024 Economic Impact
2024 Twisted Arts programs generated substantial economic benefits for the
Tulsa community. By using the Economic Impact Calculator and applying a
multiplier of seven to the original figures, our festival’s total economic impact for
the year is estimated at $158,145. This includes support for seven full-time
equivalent jobs, $88,529 in resident household income, $11,571 in local
government revenue, and $15,190 in state government revenue. These figures
underscore Twisted Arts’ vital role in contributing both culturally and
economically to the Tulsa area.

�FUTURE
OUTLOOK
2025 GOALS
In celebration of our fifth anniversary, Twisted Arts is
setting ambitious goals to expand both our programs and
community impact, aiming for a total income of $110,000
in 2025 through increased sponsorships, grants, ticket
sales, and donations. This funding will allow us to allocate
$40,000 toward artist fees, supporting more local artists
and elevating program quality. Additional resources will
enhance outreach, publicity, staffing, and fundraising,
sustaining growth and expanding our reach. With a total
budget of $100,000, we are excited to mark this
milestone year with innovative programming, deeper
community engagement, and expanded opportunities for
local talent.

FIFTH ANNIVERSARY
BIRTHDAY BASH
Twisted Arts is excited to present Margaret Cho live at Cain's Ballroom on April 9, 2025, as part
of our fifth-anniversary celebration and our first-ever fundraiser! This event aims to raise funds
for Girls Rock!, a new youth-centered arts and social justice program empowering young people
through music and creative expression. Margaret Cho’s "Live and LIVID" tour promises a night filled
with humor and bold commentary, tackling issues like homophobia, sexism, and racism. As Cho
celebrates 40 years in comedy, she invites audiences to “come through” for an unforgettable
experience. This fundraiser will set the stage for Girls Rock! to provide invaluable resources,
mentorship, and creative opportunities for Tulsa’s youth, helping to cultivate the next generation of
artists and activists. We look forward to making this night one of impact, connection, and celebration.

�Thank You
SPONSORS!
We extend our heartfelt thanks to our generous sponsors for making the
Twisted Arts fourth-anniversary celebration and our first-ever fundraiser a
reality. Your support is instrumental in helping us continue our core programs,
including the Twisted Arts Film Festival, 2-Spirit Fest, and community outreach
events that bring LGBTQ2S+ arts and voices to the forefront. Thanks to your
commitment, we are able to provide impactful programming, foster
connections, and celebrate diverse stories that inspire and unite our
community. Your partnership fuels our mission and encourages a future filled
with creativity, inclusivity, and cultural enrichment. We are truly grateful for
your belief in our vision and for standing with us as we grow and make a lasting
impact.

�CONTACT
US

TWISTED ARTS

Phone/

(918) 221-5565
Email/

kevin@twistedfest.org
Website/

www.twistedarts.org
Address/

P.O. Box 14476
Tulsa, OK 74159

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