1 20 691 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/c1c283225c332b98f610c356ff1bb6a5.jpg 0a1541e3d571dd8c7dff3b6663486af9 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/d59c0798d5bcdfb1c9e8c5381984c5a1.pdf 029b0e7244796cfa83190b726aeabf39 PDF Text Text Gmail - On Her 102nd Birthday, We Celebrate a Pioneer Who Reminde... 1 of 6 https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ik=42a9f971ff&view=pt&search=all... Mary Bishop-Baldwin <shmaryon2@gmail.com> On Her 102nd Birthday, We Celebrate a Pioneer Who Reminded Generations They Were Not Alone 1 message Oklahomans for Equality <noreply@cm01.charityengine.net> Reply-To: Oklahomans for Equality <kao.morris@okeq.org> To: Mary Bishop-Baldwin <shmaryon2@gmail.com> Tue, Nov 10, 2026 at 9:02 AM Celebrating Phyllis Lyon: A Tulsa Native Who Changed Lesbian History By Mary Bishop-Baldwin Oklahomans for Equality History Project One of the most influential lesbians in history has roots right here in Tulsa. Tuesday, Nov. 10, 2026, is the 102nd anniversary of the birth of Phyllis Lyon, a pioneering lesbian activist who with her longtime partner and eventual wife, Del Martin, founded the first organization for lesbians, the Daughters of Bilitis. In addition, they wrote and published the book “Lesbian/Woman,” and worked for many decades to further feminist and lesbian causes. The Oklahomans for Equality History Project is highlighting her because, as a Tulsa native, she is one of our own – and we can take pride in that. Phyllis Ann Lyon was born on Nov. 10, 1924, in Tulsa. She died April 9, 2020, in San Francisco. Other than the fact that she was born in Tulsa, I have never seen any information about her young years before her family moved to the West Coast. Intrigued by the local connection, though, I wanted to know more, so I began digging through records. 11/12/2026, 10:10 AM �Gmail - On Her 102nd Birthday, We Celebrate a Pioneer Who Reminde... 2 of 6 https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ik=42a9f971ff&view=pt&search=all... I found that Phyllis’ early years were spent in Tulsa just a few blocks from the site of the Tulsa Race Massacre and a few years from its occurrence in 1921. Imagine the impact growing up in the aftermath of that devastation wrought by intolerance could have had on her. Phyllis’ father, William Ranft Lyon, was born in 1895 in New York City, but a U.S. Veterans Administration record indicates that he lived in Tulsa on Feb. 1, 1919. (He was a World War I veteran.) A marriage license for him and Lorena Belle Ferguson, who was born in Kentucky but at the time was from Dallas, Texas, was announced in the Sapulpa Daily Herald on April 1, 1924. A 1924 Tulsa city directory indicates that the couple lived in Unit B4 of the Gotham Apartments in Tulsa and that William Lyon was the vice president and treasurer of the Lyon Co. The 1925 Tulsa city directory lists William R. and Lorena Lyon still living at the Gotham Apartments but in Unit C3. The Gotham Apartments, a four-story, 23-unit building built in 1920, still stands at 215 W. Fairview St. in The Heights district just north of Tulsa’s Inner Dispersal Loop – which of course didn’t exist when the Lyons lived there. It is within walking distance of downtown Tulsa, where William Lyon likely worked when the business district was booming in the 1920s. The Tulsa city directory published in 1929, the year the Great Depression began, lists a Mrs. Lorena Lyon employed as a seamstress and living at 1819 E. 16th St. No husband is listed, and the directories do not include the names of children, so rather than being a solid connection to Phyllis’ family, this record merely indicates that a Mrs. Lorena Lyon lived there without a husband. Phyllis would have been 4 at the time the directory was published; she turned 5 late that year. Tulsa Public Schools could find no record that she ever attended school here. By 1930, the year Phyllis turned 6, the young family had moved to Seattle, Washington, where William Lyon was a salesman for U.S. Gypsum, according to that year’s U.S. Census and a Seattle city directory. Perhaps he had moved there to get established in a job and home before his wife and young Phyllis joined him. A second child, Patricia Lyon, was born to the couple in 1931 in Washington state, records show. The family moved within a few years to northern California. A voter registration list for Berkeley, California, on Nov. 8, 1938, shows that the parents were both registered to vote there, with William Lyon a registered Republican and Lorena Lyon a registered Democrat. Women had had the right to vote everywhere in this country only 18 years at that point. Imagine the political discussions that young couple might have had within Phyllis’ earshot. The family had moved to Oakland, California, by the time of the 1940 Census, which listed William as a building materials salesman but did not state for what company. They were living in 11/12/2026, 10:10 AM �Gmail - On Her 102nd Birthday, We Celebrate a Pioneer Who Reminde... 3 of 6 https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ik=42a9f971ff&view=pt&search=all... an apartment in Sacramento, California, where he was a manager for a building materials company, at the time of the 1950 Census. Phyllis graduated from Sacramento High School in 1943 before attending the University of California, Berkeley, where she earned a bachelor’s degree in journalism in 1946. Thirty years later, in 1976, she earned a doctorate in education in human sexuality from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in San Francisco. According to her biography in the Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin Papers in the GLBT Historical Society Museum and Archives in San Francisco, Phyllis Lyon was a police-beat reporter in Fresno and a reporter at the Chico Enterprise-Record, both in California, during the 1940s. In the 1950s she was on the editorial staff at two building trades magazines in Seattle, where she met Del Martin, who also worked for one of the publications. “They were platonic friends for two years before becoming romantically involved,” their joint biography in the museum’s collection says. “They returned to San Francisco together in 1953. ... In 1955, they were part of a group of eight lesbians that founded the Daughters of Bilitis ... to counteract the loneliness and isolation they felt as lesbians, creating what was to become the first national combined lesbian organization and support network. Martin served as president from 1957-60, and Lyon was president in 1962.” The Daughters of Bilitis began publishing “The Ladder,” a monthly magazine for lesbians, in 1956. The couple co-authored “Lesbian/Woman,” which was published by Glide Publications in 1972. “The book includes case histories and personal experiences that document lesbian attitudes, lifestyles, and challenges of living in a heterosexual social structure,” according to their biography. It helped countless women – including me – come to terms with the realization that they were lesbians at a pre-internet time when they might have thought they were all alone. The book let them know that there were other women like them – that it was OK to be a lesbian and that they were not alone. Then-San Francisco Mayor George Moscone – who was assassinated along with gay San Francisco Board of Supervisors member Harvey Milk in 1978 – appointed Lyon in 1976 to the San Francisco Human Rights Commission, which she served as chair from 1982 to 1983. She also was chair of the commission’s Lesbian/Gay Advisory Committee. Del Martin, whose birth name was Dorothy L. Taliaferro, “was the first ‘out of the closet’ lesbian elected to the National Board of the National Organization for Women (NOW) in 1973,” according to her biography in the museum’s archives. Martin also became a nationally known advocate for abused women, having authored “Battered Wives” in 1976, and was a leader on many boards and commissions. Fifty-one years after they moved to San Francisco together, Phyllis and Del became the first same-sex couple to wed in California after then-San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom instructed his city clerks to begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples in 2004. More than 4,000 same-sex couples were married in San Francisco before the California Supreme Court nullified their licenses later that year. But when that same court ruled four years later that same-sex marriage was constitutional under that state’s constitution, Phyllis and Del again were the first same-sex couple to marry in California, and Newsom personally officiated their ceremony at City Hall. The legality of that marriage was never in doubt. After the couple had spent their adult lives together, Del Martin, 87, died two months after that second wedding. Oklahomans for Equality Grant Writer and Development Manager Beverly Cotton remembers meeting Del Martin sometime around 1977, when Beverly was an undergraduate student at the University of Oklahoma. Before meeting Martin, “I knew about the Daughters of Bilitis; I knew about the work (Phyllis and Del) had done in California for abused women, all that work.” And she had read “Lesbian/Woman,” before meeting Del. “It had an impact on me in terms of ‘I was 11/12/2026, 10:10 AM �Gmail - On Her 102nd Birthday, We Celebrate a Pioneer Who Reminde... 4 of 6 https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ik=42a9f971ff&view=pt&search=all... not alone,’” she said last week. Martin met with a few members of the OU Gay Activists Alliance, which was seeking official recognition by the university. Prior to the meeting, “I have to confess, I was intimidated, and I’m not often intimidated. But it was such a big deal to me and such an honor to meet with her.” She recalls that during the coffee-and-donuts meeting in a campus conference room early one Saturday morning, Del talked about “staying the course and ‘Don’t let them beat you. Keep going’” in the students’ quest for university recognition as a campus organization. She told the students she admired their courage in this conservative state, Cotton said. “She inspired me and really the whole group to continue our work and not to give up,” Cotton continued. “I was so inspired that someone was openly gay and an open lesbian.” Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin made an impact on thousands of women, indeed letting them know that they were not alone and that strong, bold women can make a difference in this world. Perhaps experiences in Phyllis’ young years in Tulsa made a lasting impact on her, too, helping her to become strong and brave in pursuit of her own authentic life and in helping others do the same. Although Phyllis left Oklahoma at a young age, she had remaining ties to the state. Her maternal grandmother and at least two aunts are buried in Oklahoma City cemeteries, the website findagrave.com shows. We at the OkEq History Project are proud to make the local connection to Phyllis Lyon, a lion in lesbian history. 11/12/2026, 10:10 AM �Gmail - On Her 102nd Birthday, We Celebrate a Pioneer Who Reminde... 5 of 6 https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ik=42a9f971ff&view=pt&search=all... When she was an undergraduate at Berkeley, Phyllis Lyon (front row, third from left) was an officer in the Alpha Alpha Chapter of Theta Sigma Phi, the Professional Women’s Journalism Honor Society. Phyllis Lyon (left) was the news editor for Berkeley’s student newspaper. Phyllis Lyon is pictured with other editors of the Berkeley student newspaper. OKEQ Board, Staff & Trustees Executive Committee Staff Trustees Cory Ross - President Hailey Briggs - Executive Director Dan Burnstein Brianna Peral - Vice President Cynthia Phillips Andi Gunter - Deputy Director Michael D. Smith Kevin Munter - Treasurer Beverly Cotton - Grant & Development Manager Sue Welch Chloe Shell - Secretary Jordan Watkins - Member at Large Kao Morris - Marketing & Media Manager Krista Moncado - Outreach & 11/12/2026, 10:10 AM �Gmail - On Her 102nd Birthday, We Celebrate a Pioneer Who Reminde... 6 of 6 https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ik=42a9f971ff&view=pt&search=all... Board of Directors EBA Ambassador Kaylyn Compton Lolly Mclain - Volunteer & Resource Manager Gregg Graves Tyler Harris Comfort Keidel Kira Lang Jess Malloy Christine Po Brianna Peral Mitchell Smith - Events Coordinator Lily Pina - APRN, NP-C – Family Nurse Practitioner Kai Wilson - Clinic Receptionist Mary Bishop-Baldwin Archivist Ashley Shannon Chloe Shell Mary Grace Smith Jesse Wren Jordan Watkins UNSUBSCRIBE Powered by 11/12/2026, 10:10 AM � Email A resource containing textual messages and binary attachments sent electronically from one person to another or one person to many people. Email Body The main body of the email, including all replied and forwarded text and headers By Mary Bishop-Baldwin Oklahomans for Equality History Project One of the most influential lesbians in history has roots right here in Tulsa. Tuesday, Nov. 10, 2026, is the 102nd anniversary of the birth of Phyllis Lyon, a pioneering lesbian activist who with her longtime partner and eventual wife, Del Martin, founded the first organization for lesbians, the Daughters of Bilitis. In addition, they wrote and published the book “Lesbian/Woman,” and worked for many decades to further feminist and lesbian causes. The Oklahomans for Equality History Project is highlighting her because, as a Tulsa native, she is one of our own – and we can take pride in that. Phyllis Ann Lyon was born on Nov. 10, 1924, in Tulsa. She died April 9, 2020, in San Francisco. Other than the fact that she was born in Tulsa, I have never seen any information about her young years before her family moved to the West Coast. Intrigued by the local connection, though, I wanted to know more, so I began digging through records. I found that Phyllis’ early years were spent in Tulsa just a few blocks from the site of the Tulsa Race Massacre and a few years from its occurrence in 1921. Imagine the impact growing up in the aftermath of that devastation wrought by intolerance could have had on her. Phyllis’ father, William Ranft Lyon, was born in 1895 in New York City, but a U.S. Veterans Administration record indicates that he lived in Tulsa on Feb. 1, 1919. (He was a World War I veteran.) A marriage license for him and Lorena Belle Ferguson, who was born in Kentucky but at the time was from Dallas, Texas, was announced in the Sapulpa Daily Herald on April 1, 1924. A 1924 Tulsa city directory indicates that the couple lived in Unit B4 of the Gotham Apartments in Tulsa and that William Lyon was the vice president and treasurer of the Lyon Co. The 1925 Tulsa city directory lists William R. and Lorena Lyon still living at the Gotham Apartments but in Unit C3. The Gotham Apartments, a four-story, 23-unit building built in 1920, still stands at 215 W. Fairview St. in The Heights district just north of Tulsa’s Inner Dispersal Loop – which of course didn’t exist when the Lyons lived there. It is within walking distance of downtown Tulsa, where William Lyon likely worked when the business district was booming in the 1920s. The Tulsa city directory published in 1929, the year the Great Depression began, lists a Mrs. Lorena Lyon employed as a seamstress and living at 1819 E. 16th St. No husband is listed, and the directories do not include the names of children, so rather than being a solid connection to Phyllis’ family, this record merely indicates that a Mrs. Lorena Lyon lived there without a husband. Phyllis would have been 4 at the time the directory was published; she turned 5 late that year. Tulsa Public Schools could find no record that she ever attended school here. By 1930, the year Phyllis turned 6, the young family had moved to Seattle, Washington, where William Lyon was a salesman for U.S. Gypsum, according to that year’s U.S. Census and a Seattle city directory. Perhaps he had moved there to get established in a job and home before his wife and young Phyllis joined him. A second child, Patricia Lyon, was born to the couple in 1931 in Washington state, records show. The family moved within a few years to northern California. A voter registration list for Berkeley, California, on Nov. 8, 1938, shows that the parents were both registered to vote there, with William Lyon a registered Republican and Lorena Lyon a registered Democrat. Women had had the right to vote everywhere in this country only 18 years at that point. Imagine the political discussions that young couple might have had within Phyllis’ earshot. The family had moved to Oakland, California, by the time of the 1940 Census, which listed William as a building materials salesman but did not state for what company. They were living in an apartment in Sacramento, California, where he was a manager for a building materials company, at the time of the 1950 Census. Phyllis graduated from Sacramento High School in 1943 before attending the University of California, Berkeley, where she earned a bachelor’s degree in journalism in 1946. Thirty years later, in 1976, she earned a doctorate in education in human sexuality from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in San Francisco. According to her biography in the Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin Papers in the GLBT Historical Society Museum and Archives in San Francisco, Phyllis Lyon was a police-beat reporter in Fresno and a reporter at the Chico Enterprise-Record, both in California, during the 1940s. In the 1950s she was on the editorial staff at two building trades magazines in Seattle, where she met Del Martin, who also worked for one of the publications. “They were platonic friends for two years before becoming romantically involved,” their joint biography in the museum’s collection says. “They returned to San Francisco together in 1953. ... In 1955, they were part of a group of eight lesbians that founded the Daughters of Bilitis ... to counteract the loneliness and isolation they felt as lesbians, creating what was to become the first national combined lesbian organization and support network. Martin served as president from 1957-60, and Lyon was president in 1962.” The Daughters of Bilitis began publishing “The Ladder,” a monthly magazine for lesbians, in 1956. The couple co-authored “Lesbian/Woman,” which was published by Glide Publications in 1972. “The book includes case histories and personal experiences that document lesbian attitudes, lifestyles, and challenges of living in a heterosexual social structure,” according to their biography. It helped countless women – including me – come to terms with the realization that they were lesbians at a pre-internet time when they might have thought they were all alone. The book let them know that there were other women like them – that it was OK to be a lesbian and that they were not alone. Then-San Francisco Mayor George Moscone – who was assassinated along with gay San Francisco Board of Supervisors member Harvey Milk in 1978 – appointed Lyon in 1976 to the San Francisco Human Rights Commission, which she served as chair from 1982 to 1983. She also was chair of the commission’s Lesbian/Gay Advisory Committee. Del Martin, whose birth name was Dorothy L. Taliaferro, “was the first ‘out of the closet’ lesbian elected to the National Board of the National Organization for Women (NOW) in 1973,” according to her biography in the museum’s archives. Martin also became a nationally known advocate for abused women, having authored “Battered Wives” in 1976, and was a leader on many boards and commissions. Fifty-one years after they moved to San Francisco together, Phyllis and Del became the first same-sex couple to wed in California after then-San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom instructed his city clerks to begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples in 2004. More than 4,000 same-sex couples were married in San Francisco before the California Supreme Court nullified their licenses later that year. But when that same court ruled four years later that same-sex marriage was constitutional under that state’s constitution, Phyllis and Del again were the first same-sex couple to marry in California, and Newsom personally officiated their ceremony at City Hall. The legality of that marriage was never in doubt. After the couple had spent their adult lives together, Del Martin, 87, died two months after that second wedding. Oklahomans for Equality Grant Writer and Development Manager Beverly Cotton remembers meeting Del Martin sometime around 1977, when Beverly was an undergraduate student at the University of Oklahoma. Before meeting Martin, “I knew about the Daughters of Bilitis; I knew about the work (Phyllis and Del) had done in California for abused women, all that work.” And she had read “Lesbian/Woman,” before meeting Del. “It had an impact on me in terms of ‘I was not alone,’” she said last week. Martin met with a few members of the OU Gay Activists Alliance, which was seeking official recognition by the university. Prior to the meeting, “I have to confess, I was intimidated, and I’m not often intimidated. But it was such a big deal to me and such an honor to meet with her.” She recalls that during the coffee-and-donuts meeting in a campus conference room early one Saturday morning, Del talked about “staying the course and ‘Don’t let them beat you. Keep going’” in the students’ quest for university recognition as a campus organization. She told the students she admired their courage in this conservative state, Cotton said. “She inspired me and really the whole group to continue our work and not to give up,” Cotton continued. “I was so inspired that someone was openly gay and an open lesbian.” Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin made an impact on thousands of women, indeed letting them know that they were not alone and that strong, bold women can make a difference in this world. Perhaps experiences in Phyllis’ young years in Tulsa made a lasting impact on her, too, helping her to become strong and brave in pursuit of her own authentic life and in helping others do the same. Although Phyllis left Oklahoma at a young age, she had remaining ties to the state. Her maternal grandmother and at least two aunts are buried in Oklahoma City cemeteries, the website findagrave.com shows. We at the OkEq History Project are proud to make the local connection to Phyllis Lyon, a lion in lesbian history. Subject Line The content of the subject line of the email On Her 102nd Birthday, We Celebrate a Pioneer Who Reminded Generations They Were Not Alone From The name and email address of the person sending the email Oklahomans for Equality To The name(s) and email address(es) of the person to whom the email was sent historyproject@okeq.org Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Phyllis Lyon's Tulsa connection Subject The topic of the resource Lesbian activist and icon Phyllis Lyon's connection to Tulsa Description An account of the resource The Oklahomans for Equality History Project traces Phyllis Lyon's family tree to show her birth and early years in Tulsa. Addresses and photos of her childhood homes here are included. The article takes the reader through her early years in Tulsa, Seattle and northern California and discusses her contributions to lesbian and feminist causes. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mary Bishop-Baldwin Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Oklahomans for Equality Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Oct. 10, 2026 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Oklahomans for Equality Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Type The nature or genre of the resource Article Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Phyllis Lyon article https://history.okeq.org/files/original/c3ee9b36c7b5ff36579c9d222832b721.jpeg 3f7500dd0ec1f26bfe646192d40da5e3 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/36627279a1d219fbc484f7487ac9f491 ce17ec60e929e5d995b11d3181b1907a Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Text Any textual data included in the document Veterans Day remembrance By Mary Bishop-Baldwin Oklahomans for Equality History Project On this Veterans Day, Oklahomans for Equality History Project remembers with pride and appreciation the many members of our LGBTQ community who have served in our nation’s military, even during times when it was impossible for them to be open and honest about their own identities. On the second floor of OkEq’s Dennis R. Neill Equality Center, just off the elevator, visitors will find our Veterans Lobby, where 36 plaques with photos honor local LGBTQ individuals who served before the military’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy was repealed. Those brave individuals allowed Oklahomans for Equality to tell their stories – and include their identities – to our congressional delegation when trying to persuade them to advocate for the repeal of DADT. The Veterans Lobby was dedicated on Veterans Day in 2008 to honor those in our community who served. In addition to the plaques, the lobby holds U.S. and Oklahoma flags and the flags from every branch of service, which are carried in OkEq’s Tulsa Pride parades in an honor guard contingent of veterans organized for many years by Melanie Thurston, an Army Spec. E-4 who served in the first Iraq War. Also in the lobby is a pool table that was donated and dedicated in memory of U.S. Marine Corps Sgt Harold Joseph Hooker, a gay paratrooper who served during the Korean War, along with a casket flag in a shadow box with Hooker’s medals, memorabilia and photos. Nearby, three editorial cartoons donated to Oklahomans for Equality by former Tulsa World cartoonist Bruce Plante adorn a wall. An informative video tour of the Veterans Lobby is posted to social media. On Sept. 20, 2011, the day the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy officially ended, Oklahomans for Equality made history by being the first LGBTQ center anywhere to host military recruiters. Potential candidates came to the Equality Center to meet with the recruiters. The event was covered by local and national media, including The New York Times. In the years before the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy and the military’s outright ban on gay people before that, many members of our community wanted to – and did – serve their country honorably. They had to hide their true identities, and when and if they were found out, often they were dishonorably discharged. Now through an executive order, the Pentagon has instituted a policy again prohibiting transgender, nonbinary and gender-nonconforming individuals from serving in the military. The policy is being challenged in the courts. The Oklahomans for Equality History Project salutes the brave members of our community who have served our country and those who are serving now. Happy Veterans Day. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Email, social media Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans Day Remembrance Subject The topic of the resource Oklahomans for Equality's Veterans Lobby, appreciation for LGBTQ veterans, military recruiters at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center when DADT fell Description An account of the resource This is an OkEq History Project article that calls attention to the Veterans Lobby at the Equality Center and discusses the plaques with pictures honoring individuals LGBTQ veterans, the pool table, the flags and the editorial cartoons; recalls that military recruiters were at the Equality Center to talk to potential recruits on the day the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy was no longer in effect; and salutes our LGBTQ veterans. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mary Bishop-Baldwin Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Oklahomans for Equality Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Nov. 11, 2026 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Oklahomans for Equality Type The nature or genre of the resource Article Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Veterans Day 2026 article https://history.okeq.org/files/original/f68bbb33903254a939a9e9c8a240f08b.jpg 662a00c345c996433f45c662b7a55af2 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/293c08b6b95db6d89818bc434043157f.jpg 62d0f2c1a26596f93eec9bf41de2eeaa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oklahoma Leather Association Subject The topic of the resource Oklahoma Leather Association Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Oklahoma Leather Association Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Oklahomans for Equality Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roy Raper (Pup Cerus) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Oklahomans for Equality Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Oklahoma Leather Association Photo Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oklahoma Leather Association at Tulsa Pride 2026. Subject The topic of the resource Oklahoma Leather Association Description An account of the resource Two photos showing the Oklahoma Leather Association (OkLA) at the start of the Oct. 17, 2026, Tulsa Pride Parade and at OkLA's Cookout and Proud at The Tulsa Eagle. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Roy Raper (Pup Cerus) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Oklahoma Leather Association Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Oklahomans for Equality Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Oct. 17, 2026 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roy Raper Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Oklahomans for Equality Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Digital photos https://history.okeq.org/files/original/bb5e9b20079b9f56a225787a6432551b.jpg 475640f518dde01c3a2e8f36c9eb0c9e https://history.okeq.org/files/original/f14c964044e578e033c3987538d136e2.jpg 1505d818834701acbff3b488e9835572 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/a82b60af3559d7d8f1dc633d9418d7ba.jpg fea2bc4bc5ac308dcd53a25e2a7bc666 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/77ab3a3f2d6babfb90c02403a1ee2e03.jpg de90e9cb42caee06a02a30f43a82ae64 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/9d0e63b8ed245bac0e8409dbb64cfcdf.docx 4d8d5706e5e7bfb096350ff507732674 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Text Any textual data included in the document By Mary Bishop-Baldwin Oklahomans for Equality History Project It’s Oct. 19, National LGBTQ Center Awareness Day, and today we at the History Project celebrate the very existence of Oklahomans for Equality’s Dennis R. Neill Equality Center. Since the Equality Center opened nearly two decades ago, thousands of people have come through its doors, joining with like-minded folks and advocating for LGBTQ people, accessing services, using a free library with thousands of LGBTQ-themed books, and rallying for justice and equality for all. The Equality Center is a gift for us all – and for future generations – from many dedicated volunteers who gave of their time, labor and money to establish this home for the LGBTQ community in Tulsa. Before the Equality Center opened in 2007, Oklahomans for Equality and its predecessor organizations had no permanent home. When the group was founded in 1980, its members met in places such as the Central Library and All Souls Unitarian Church. Within a few years of its founding, the group had rented small spaces for storing the organization’s records and for such things as board meetings, but any community meetings and gatherings were held elsewhere. Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights opened Tulsa’s first “Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgendered Community Center” in a rented space at 1338 E. 38th St. on Peoria Avenue in Brookside in October 1996, according to a “History of TOHR 1980 to 2003” document in the OkEq archives. “The center quickly became a popular meeting spot for community groups, support groups, and those who wished to network with other members of the GLBT community. The center began to operate a book and video library, referral service, and pride retail store,” the document says. The center, which also was known as the Pride Center, was named the Tulsa Gay Community Services Center in 1998, Greg Gatewood, a former TOHR executive director, recalled in an oral history interview that is part of the History Project’s archives. Keeping the center’s doors open was always a concern, particularly from the standpoint of money. “As the end of 1998 approached, and despite very careful budgeting with strict adherence to that budget, the serious question of ‘how we will pay rent’ and ‘will we have to close the doors’ was a real threat,” Gatewood said in an addendum to that interview. “An anonymous gift, an amount to cover rent though the end of year plus a bit more, was then delivered to the TOHR office in the newly renamed ‘Tulsa Gay Community Services Center.’ That anonymous gift kept the doors open in 1998 and helped set the course for success in 1999.” The property owner wanted no exterior signage indicating that this was a gay center, but Gatewood said that in 1998 he and two other members raised a Pride flag and hung banners that said “Gay Community Center and Pride Store” from the roof down two sides of the center’s building to enhance its visibility in Brookside. “We got kicked out. We lost our lease because we hung up the signs,” he said in the interview. A legal fight ensued, and TOHR lost that battle. Part of the reason landlords insisted on no obvious signage is that they feared potential vandalism to their buildings from anti-gay extremists. A Sept. 15, 2014, Oklahomans for Equality Facebook post says that “we had to move the existing gay community center every few years because landlords overreacted to vandalism and felt our visibility hurt other tenants’ business.” Indeed, “the Community Center has been vandalized numerous times in the many locations in which it has operated,” TOHR noted in its Pyramid Project Capital Campaign Executive Summary in explaining part of the rationale for buying its own property. In former TOHR President Tom Neal’s oral history interview, he and Dennis Neill discussed the vandalism at the Brookside center, recalling that the front glass was broken twice. The organization moved to a rented space on Memorial Drive at 21st Street in October 2000. The Nov. 10, 1999, TOHR membership meeting minutes, housed in the History Project archives, state that the organization “can put up permanent signs once outside renovations are substantially complete.” Before that lease expired in September 2003, TOHR began looking for a new space to lease – explicitly stating in an Aug. 1, 2003, “Request for Space” document that it needed the “right to place visible exterior signage with text similar to the following: ‘Tulsa GLBT Community Center,’ including graphics for the TOHR logo and the rainbow colors associated with the GLBT worldwide community.” The Tulsa GLBT Community Center moved in 2003 to the Highland Plaza shopping center, 5545 E. 41st St., east of Yale Avenue. TOHR had launched its first capital fundraising campaign, the Pyramid Project, in 2000. The “History of TOHR 1980 to 2003” document says the goal was to raise $1 million to buy “a permanent and visible home for the Tulsa GLBT Community Center.” “Those brave and self-sacrificing folk believed if they would ‘build it, they would come’ to a center that provided direct services, advocated daily for a more inclusive Oklahoma, and connected individuals and created paths to friendships,” OkEq’s Sept. 15, 2014, Facebook post says. Not long after OkEq bought the building that would become the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center – and long before the building was remodeled and opened to the community – Gatewood went onto the roof and raised a Pride flag above the building for the first time. “One of the most memorable days of my decade-plus of involvement with TOHR /OkEq was the day (in November 2005) I raised the Pride flag on the roof of the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center,” Gatewood said in his oral history interview. “It was a celebration attended by hundreds of the Tulsa LGBT community on a beautiful November day filled with sunshine. I will never forget that feeling. I will never forget that day.” More than a year later, the Jan. 22, 2007, Oklahomans for Equality eNews reported that “after hundreds of thousands of dollars, over 7,000 hours of volunteer work, … 275+ volunteers, 2 big trucks and countless weekday and weekend workdays – the day is finally here! Oklahomans for Equality will open the new Dennis R. Neill Equality Center today, Tuesday, January 23, 2007.” A five-day grand opening celebration was held from Feb. 14 through Feb. 18, 2007, with various events every day. A Jan. 23, 2007, email from Oklahomans for Equality announced that “defying conventional expectations, Tulsa is now home to one of the largest (18,000-square-foot) lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community centers in the United States.” Celebratory events ranging from an art exhibit to GayBingO to a Wild Hearts Ball were held at the Equality Center. The email contains extensive information about the grand opening events. Our ownership of our own building was a remarkable accomplishment, and while it gave us a permanent home with no chance of being evicted, it didn’t stop the vandalism. Around 12:30 a.m. on March 6, 2017, a white four-door pickup pulled up in front of the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center and fired 13 shots at the windows and front door. The damage was discovered when staff arrived later that morning, and the drive-by shooting was viewed on the center’s security video. Over the years, TOHR/OkEq and other organizations in Tulsa and across the nation have held events to mark National Coming Out Day. But the community was resilient. “The board of directors has chosen to keep the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center open and programming to continue as it does on a regular basis. They have hired an off duty Tulsa police officer to provide extra security during this time of uncertainty,” the March 8, 2017, OkEq eNews reported. After OkEq member Wes Smith challenged members of the community to send in $13 each – one dollar for each of the pellets that had hit the building – to replace the glass, people across the country and world sent in more than $33,000, which allowed OkEq to replace all the downstairs windows and the front door with more bullet-resistant glass, Sue Welch and Marcy Smith recalled in their oral history interview with the History Project. The damaged door is now a part of the History Project’s office. On July 22, 2019, a little more than two years after that drive-by, the mural depicting Lynn Riggs on the exterior of the Equality Center’s Lynn Riggs Black Box Theater was vandalized with spray paint, the July 31, 2019, OkEq eNews reported. A Tulsa World article about the vandalism and OkEq’s resilience is on file in the History Project’s archives. Our home at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center can never be taken for granted. It is meant to be our safe place. While Oklahomans for Equality owns the building, it is the community’s responsibility to foster its continued existence by contributing resources and participating in programming. On this National LGBTQ Center Awareness Day, think of the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center and all those who have made its existence possible for us and for future generations. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource National LGBTQ Center Awareness Day article Subject The topic of the resource National LGBTQ Center Awareness Day Description An account of the resource An article on National LGBTQ Center Awareness Day and the history of Oklahomans for Equality's/Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights' locations since the organization's founding in 1980. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mary Bishop-Baldwin Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Oklahomans for Equality History Project archives Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Oklahomans for Equality Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Oct. 19, 2026 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Oklahomans for Equality Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Word Doc Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Article Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context National LGBTQ Center Awareness Day article Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Tulsa, Oklahoma “Gay 21st and Memorial 21st Street 41st Street ALL SOULS UNITARIAN CHURCH and Transgendered Community Center Bisexual Brookside Central Library Dennis R. Neill Equality Center drive-by gay community center gay pride center Grand Opening Greg Gatewood Highland Plaza landlords lesbian LGBT community center LGBT pride center Marcy Smith Memorial Drive National LGBTQ Center Awareness Day Oklahomans for Equality Peoria Pride flag Pride Store Pyramid Project Sue Welch Tom Neal Tulsa Gay Community Services Center Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights vandalism https://history.okeq.org/files/original/3cb1ee34cdb704b95a734f165edc1f83.png 247e5d6ee9e7a4963ef3373bb9c2c2c3 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/ec64388b96da8bb5e1a433528220e23d.docx aad8c0b65ee6cb45b064a1246dd26a9f Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Text Any textual data included in the document National Coming Out Day, Oct. 11 By Mary Bishop-Baldwin Oklahomans for Equality History Project Today, Oct. 11, is National Coming Out Day, and the Oklahomans for Equality History Project is taking a look back at how this day came to be and how Tulsans have acknowledged it over its nearly four decades of existence. “Coming out” is something that is near and dear to our hearts at the History Project as we consider the risks OkEq’s founders took when putting their names and faces with a gay rights organization in 1980, when the group was founded. Times were very different then, and it took bravery and a bit of self-righteous indignation for those individuals to come together and acknowledge being gay. But that’s the thing: It’s always been easier when you find others who share traits with you – when you know you’re not the only one. So coming out allows others who think they are the only one to see someone like them and find the courage to live their lives openly and authentically. Beyond helping other LGBTQ+ people, though, coming out lets other people know that they know someone who is gay or lesbian or bisexual or transgender or two spirit or nonbinary or anything that is not cisgender heterosexual, and this can make all the difference in how the larger society responds to us. When straight cis people know us as people, they’re less likely to demonize us and work against our human rights. Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights, OkEq’s forerunner organization, informed its members in the May 1988 edition of the TOHR Reporter that “lesbians and gay men across the country are being called to join in a nationally publicized ‘Coming Out Day’ scheduled for October 11th, 1988. According to a recent report in the Washington Blade, organizers of the event plan to involve hundreds of thousands of people in order to boost the visibility and political clout of gays and lesbians by showing that they exist in all walks of life.” This 1988 event was the first National Coming Out Day. The May 1988 article explained how it was started: The ‘Coming Out Day’ activities were jointly sponsored by the National Gay Rights Advocates, a California based litigation group, and The Experience Weekend, a gay-oriented consciousness-raising program run by Rob Eichberg. Jean O’Leary, NGRA’s executive director, said she and Eichberg volunteered to organize the event after it was proposed at a national gay rights conference held that February. “The National Coming Out Day campaign will encourage every individual to take the ‘next step’ in coming out, by telling a parent, relative, business associate or friend,” the TOHR article said. It added that “coming out” could be done through “a simple action like placing a photograph of your lover on your desk at work, or a bold step like a teenager taking his or her first step in acknowledging their sexual identity.” That national conference mentioned in the article was a February 1988 gathering in Warrenton, Virginia, of “approximately 200 recognized leaders of the national GLBT community” who collaborated on strategies to change public policy toward gays. A formal statement from the group prioritized visibility of the community through coming out. “We are mindful of the invisibility of our community,” it said. “As long as the overwhelming majority of our community remains closeted we will continue to be dismissed. We must do a better job of encouraging people to begin the process of coming out, and to support them when they do. We all know the exhilarating liberation of the process. We must convey that to others. The closet means invisibility, impotence, crippling and even death.” Later in the statement, the organizers said: “Finally, we must have a national coming out day, or week, to be held in the fall. We recognize that coming out is a process, not a single event. On the coming out event we can encourage everyone in our community to take the next step – it may be coming out to a friend, to a sister or brother, to parents, to coworkers, or even in the media. Or it might be to join a gay organization, to become an activist, to engage in civil disobedience. We must move to the next stage, no matter where on the spectrum we presently are.” As that first National Coming Out Day approached, TOHR reported in the October 1988 edition of the TOHR Reporter that: “The goal of National Coming Out Day, Oct. 11,1988, is to increase the visibility and the political clout of the more than 25 million gay men and lesbians in this country. “Coming out is the most self-empowering and political move that any one of us can make. Coming out is a liberating experience that enhances our self-esteem. It enables us to share our true selves and feelings with the people we care about – our families and friends. “Coming out also is a political act that uses gay visibility to influence the attitudes of people who respect us. “We are of all races and religions. We work in every profession in every city. We touch the lives of millions of people whose negative view of homosexuality would change dramatically if they were to know who we are. “By remaining silent, we ensure our continued oppression as we allow an ignorant and intolerant society to make the rules that govern our lives. “On Oct. 11, the first anniversary of the historic March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights, hundreds of thousands of people will be bringing the spirit of the march home to their local communities. Be one of those people. Help to create a world where lesbians and gay men can live and work with their heterosexual counterparts as equal citizens in a society that recognizes their legitimacy and place in America!” The article offered some “ideas for coming out”: • Speak the truth when asked, “So are you engaged yet?” • Stop lying to your fraternity brother about all the women you’ve had • Call him a him and her a her when talking about your love life • Acknowledge that “those roses” are not from your mother • Be affectionate with your lover upon arrival or departure at the airport • Put your lover’s photo on your desk at work • Read a gay paper on the bus or in a restaurant • Take your lover home for the holidays • Come out to your family – parents, brothers and sisters • Come out to your extended family – uncles, aunts and cousins It also offered ways “non-gay friends of gays” could offer support: • Write a letter to your congressperson in support of human rights • Challenge homophobic jokes and comments when you hear them • Attend a lesbian or gay event with your lesbian and gay friends Over the years, TOHR/OkEq and other organizations in Tulsa and across the nation have held events to mark National Coming Out Day. The Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights Fall 2002 edition of The Torch newsletter notes that “many communities and college campuses sponsor activities such as dances, film festivals, workshops, literature booths, and rallies on National Coming Out Day. Tulsans can do their part in this year’s National Coming Out Day. Simply stop by the TOHR Pride Store, located in the Tulsa GLBT Community Center, 2114 S. Memorial, and pick up a bumper sticker or T-shirt. Then slap that sticker on your car or wear that T-shirt.’ “Come out! It’s what you should do. Period.” The November 1993 edition of The Parachute includes information about a National Coming Out Day event held by TOHR. It included an auction as well as free food and drinks. The Oct. 15-Nov. 14, 1995, edition of the Tulsa Family News includes information about local NCOD events. The Family of Faith Metropolitan Community Church held a commemorative service attended by 35 people, the newspaper said. The University of Tulsa’s Bisexual, Lesbian and Gay Alliance presented three days of programming ranging from a panel of PFLAG speakers to a discussion of gays and lesbians in the church. The next year, in 1996, multiple events again were held over a three-day period at TU. According to the September-October 1996 Tulsa Family News, a roundtable discussion of “Sexuality: Nature vs. Nurture” was held one evening, while a panel discussion on same-sex marriage was held the next. On the third day, all campus groups were invited to attend a Unity Party in honor of National Coming Out Day. The August 1999 edition of the Tulsa Family News, as well as the publication’s September 1999 edition, reported that TOHR would present a National Coming Out Day Festival and Fair, which was to include a mini film festival. The October 2001 edition of the Tulsa Family News reported that Tulsa’s PFLAG chapter was having a Come Out and Fly Your Kite event at a local park in honor of National Coming Out Day. The Oct. 10, 2013, edition of the Oklahomans for Equality eNews contains a National Coming Out Day reminder that “OkEq offers a FREE Coming Out Workshop every Monday evening.” In 2017, OkEq held a T-shirt printing and open mic Coming Out Day event at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center. The community was invited to bring their own T-shirts and print their own messages on them for free and to tell their coming-out stories through comedy, poetry, spoken word or performance, the Sept. 27, 2017, OkEq eNews announced. Oklahomans for Equality made a statement in the Oct. 10, 2018, eNews: “Coming out – whether it is as lesbian, gay, bissexual, transgender, queer or allied – STILL MATTERS. When people know someone who is LGBTQ, they are far more likely to support equality under the law. Beyond that, our stories can be powerful to each other. “Every year on National Coming Out Day, we celebrate coming out as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer (LGBTQ) or as an ally. On Oct. 11, 2018, we will mark the 30th anniversary of National Coming Out Day. “Nearly 30 years ago, on the anniversary of the National March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights, we first observed National Coming Out Day as a reminder that one of our most basic tools is the power of coming out. One out of every two Americans has someone close to them who is gay or lesbian. For transgender people, that number is only one in 10.” In 2019, OkEq created an #outinokla Facebook frame, which it promoted on a Facebook post featuring a photo of gay playwright Lynn Riggs. The Oct. 11, 2021, OkEq eNews acknowledged that “in the LGBTQ2S+ community, ‘coming out’ is a process that never truly ends. First, we must come out to ourselves, accepting who we are in the community. Then comes telling others, which never really ends, as we have to keep coming out at work, with friendships, with family, and in other situations. “It takes time. It takes tremendous self care. It takes a whole community of support to feel ready to come out! At Oklahomans for Equality, we are dedicated to helping individuals no matter where you are on your journey. Join us for our Coming Out Workshops, connect with our gender and sexuality support groups, get sliding scale fee counseling, visit our OKEQ Health Clinic for HRT services, and check out our LGBTQ+ Youth Group. Coming out is a journey, and we are here to support you!” (Groups and events at the Equality Center change from time to time. Check out what’s happening on Oklahomans for Equality’s event calendar here.) So make your statement today, National Coming Out Day, but continue to honor yourself and our past during the entire month of October, LGBT History Month. Check out the Oklahomans for Equality History Project’s online archives at history.okeq.org. And you can come out, find your community and celebrate with Oklahomans for Equality at the Tulsa Pride parade and festival on Saturday, Oct. 17. Wear your rainbows. We’ll see you there. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource National Coming Out Day article Subject The topic of the resource National Coming Out Day Description An account of the resource The Oklahomans for Equality History Project looks at National Coming Out Day's history and significance and how OkEq and Tulsa have marked it over the decades. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Oklahomans for Equality History Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Oklahomans for Equality History Project archives, internet resources Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Oklahomans for Equality History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Oct. 11, 2026 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mary Bishop-Baldwin Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Oklahomans for Equality Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Word Doc Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Article https://history.okeq.org/files/original/de79fb9b35e63dd55a2c247667ce0168.jpg 68fdfcdd8f5664f6a275667b0a596ee2 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/48e9758f8592ec73259afac36db042ce.docx b7a79dcc3aca6913e944b9c38964374f https://history.okeq.org/files/original/52d62a98923728971e6b8f7cc8f81d24.jpg e705a70d8bc265a47bd2bbf4f94c27ff https://history.okeq.org/files/original/c6dc587d9496a79da3786205e4fde22e.png c50f36f33446fce5f3b3ae098902075e https://history.okeq.org/files/original/5190598b3096041baf967f4f1f9757c9.png d271b35d75c17fee16d69c8d72a48481 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Text Any textual data included in the document Oklahoma marriage equality 12th anniversary By Mary Bishop-Baldwin Oklahomans for Equality History Project I’ve been researching and writing articles on OkEq’s and Oklahoma’s LGBTQ history since this spring, and with my journalism background, I’ve written them from a third-person perspective. But today’s issue is profoundly personal for me, so, in the interest of transparency, I’m writing this in first person, and I’m drawing on my own memories as well as on historical documents. I hope you’ll indulge me. Today, Oct. 6, 2026, is the 12th anniversary of marriage equality in Oklahoma. It’s also my 12th wedding anniversary. Twenty-two years ago next month, Sharon Baldwin, Sue Barton, Gay Phillips and I filed a federal lawsuit against Oklahoma Gov. Brad Henry, Oklahoma Attorney General Drew Edmondson, United States Attorney General John Ashcroft and U.S. President George W. Bush seeking the right to marry (Sharon and me) or to have our existing relationship recognized. (Sue and Gay already had a domestic partnership in Vermont.) We filed the case the morning after 76 percent of Oklahomans who bothered to go to the polls voted to put the state’s existing statutory ban against same-sex marriage into the state constitution. Our case took lots of twists and turns over the next decade, including a complete change of lawyers and defendants (Drew Edmondson later told us he’d always been on our side), but we eventually prevailed in the courts, and marriage equality became the law in Oklahoma on Oct. 6, 2014 – a year before Jim Obergefell’s case won marriage equality nationwide. We weren’t affiliated with Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights – Oklahomans for Equality’s previous name – in the early years of our legal action, but the organization threw its weight behind our cause starting in 2008, and we will forever remain indebted to OkEq for the support it gave us and the home it provided us at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center. It is my honor and privilege to be working for the Oklahomans for Equality History Project now to bring attention not just to this but to all the milestones along the road to LGBTQ equality so far. As Sharon discusses in her book about our case, “Becoming Brave: Winning Marriage Equality in Oklahoma and Finding Our Voice” (available for check-out in OkEq’s Nancy and Joe McDonald Rainbow Library), Oklahomans for Equality hosted many events and was the primary fund-raiser for costs associated with our lawsuit. (Thank you, OkEq and all of you who donated!) OkEq declared “Marriage Equality Week” and organized several events during the week of March 25-30, 2013, when the U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments in New York resident Edie Windsor’s case challenging the Defense of Marriage Act and in the challenge to California’s anti-equality Proposition 8. On that Monday, the University of Tulsa law school’s gay student group presented a “Preview to the Supreme Court Hearings on Marriage Equality” at the Equality Center, and faith leaders from local inclusive congregations spoke in support of marriage equality. That Tuesday, OkEq board member and attorney Mike Redman discussed that day’s U.S. Supreme Court hearings. On Wednesday, Oklahoma’s marriage-equality plaintiffs and local couples who had been legally married in other jurisdictions held a panel discussion on why marriage matters. That Thursday, attorney and OkEq board member Conor Cleary recapped discussions in the DOMA and Prop 8 hearings, and on Friday, a marriage equality documentary was screened and wedding cake was served. A flier from Oklahomans for Equality to its Equality Business Alliance members invited them to participate in an OkEq Wedding Fair by showing off their business services to prospective brides & brides and grooms & grooms during that week’s events. Then, more than nine years after our lawsuit was filed, U.S. Senior District Judge Terence Kern ruled on Jan. 14, 2014, that Oklahoma’s ban on same-sex marriage violated the U.S. Constitution’s equal protection provision. He stayed his ruling, however, until the case could play out in appeals. We had known from the beginning that if we lost at any point, we would appeal, and we knew that if we won, the state would appeal. So we were OK with the stay at that point. We were elated that we had won, and we continued to have faith that we would win on appeal. Anticipating new costs as the case would go to the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver, Oklahomans for Equality encouraged supporters in its Jan. 17, 2014 eNews to contribute to the legal fund. The Feb. 5, 2014, OkEq eNews promoted a pre-Valentine’s Day marriage-equality engagement party to be held at All Souls Unitarian Church, one of our supporting congregations, on Feb. 12. “Announce your desire to marry as soon as it is legal in Oklahoma,” the article said. “Certificates provided to couples announcing. There will be food, drink and music.” The first and only time oral arguments were heard in our case was April 17, 2014, in the Byron White U.S. Courthouse in Denver, the home of the 10th Circuit. Three months and a day later, on July 18, the appeals court issued a ruling upholding Judge Kern’s U.S. District Court ruling declaring Oklahoma’s ban unconstitutional. We had won again, but the court left the stay in place pending appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Indeed, the defendant (by this point, the defendant was the Tulsa County court clerk) did appeal. We also urged the U.S. Supreme Court to hear our case, even though we had won. We wanted the high court to make a ruling that would apply to the entire nation and end the patchwork quilt of marriage-equality states that had emerged during the past decade. One of the original printings of the Brief for Respondents – or “orange book” – with our attorneys’ pleading to the high court to take up our case, signed by all four plaintiffs and three exceptional lawyers – Don Holladay, James Warner III and Joe Thai – is on file in the OkEq History Project collection, and a digital reproduction is available in our online archives. But on Oct. 6, 2014, nearly 10 years after we filed our lawsuit, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a statement saying it would not take up the appeal of our lower court ruling, thus letting it stand. The stay was lifted, and same-sex couples were able to marry starting that day. The staff and board of Oklahomans for Equality jumped into action, and by 5 o’clock that evening, Sharon and I were holding wedding bouquets and standing in front of Oklahoma Court of Civil Appeals Judge Jane Wiseman on the front steps of the Tulsa County Courthouse, where we had obtained a marriage license just hours before, and were saying our vows in front of a crowd of hundreds of friends, family, co-workers, supporters and onlookers. Then what seemed like even more people attended a reception at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center, complete with a hastily obtained wedding cake and plenty of champagne for toasting the historic occasion. We were elated, and while we were ecstatic to finally be married, we were even more thrilled for our community. Now same-sex couples in our state and region (10th Circuit states) could publicly acknowledge their relationships and have them recognized by our government! We all could lift our heads higher and walk more proudly, knowing that we were no longer second-class citizens under the law. On the marriage front, at least, we were equal to heterosexuals in the eyes of the law. And we were far from the only same-sex couple married in Oklahoma that day. When Sharon and I arrived at the courthouse, several other couples were already there to get their marriage licenses. Very kindly, though, they were waiting for us to get there and then let us go to the head of the line so we could have the honor of obtaining the first marriage license issued to a same-sex couple in Tulsa County. Some of them went ahead with their ceremonies as soon as possible, but we scheduled ours for that evening to allow for arrangements to be made and for friends and family to get to Tulsa from out of town. Oklahomans for Equality determined that during the next three months, more than 3,200 Oklahoma marriage licenses were issued to same-sex couples in 23 of the state’s 77 counties, then-OkEq Executive Director Toby Jenkins told the Tulsa World in January 2015. County court clerks’ offices weren’t keeping a count, but OkEq staff members went through online records and tallied the numbers of marriage license applications issued to couples with apparently same-gender names. The tally sheets are on file in the Oklahomans for Equality History Project archives. Immediately after marriage equality became the law in Oklahoma, Oklahomans for Equality made a list of gay-friendly officiants for wedding ceremonies available for pickup at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center or by email. Also in its Oct. 8, 2014, eNews, it encouraged couples to look through the Equality Business Alliance directory for LGBTQ-friendly businesses to help create the perfect wedding, and it promoted spaces within the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center as places to hold a ceremony. For those with questions about how the legality of same-sex marriage would affect them, Conor Cleary led an Oct. 9, 2014, session of OkEq’s OUTlaw Legal Series focused on the state of same-sex marriage in Oklahoma. Also as early as Oct. 8, 2014, OkEq put out a call for wedding photos from the same-sex couples who had gotten legally married since Oct. 6. “If you have a photo of you and your partner getting your marriage license or photos of your wedding, we'd like to see them, the organization wrote in the Jan. 22, 2015, OkEq eNews. The organization continued collecting photographs, and then, near the one-year anniversary of marriage equality in Oklahoma, Oklahomans for Equality released a video compilation of those that had been submitted. A link to the YouTube video is included in the Oct. 7, 2015, OkEq eNews. Within one year of same-sex marriage becoming legal in Oklahoma, marriage equality became the law of the land nationwide when the Supreme Court ruled in the Obergefell case on June 26, 2015. The patchwork quilt of marriage-equality states was no more! Finally we could fly through Dallas and not have our marriages nullified by the state of Texas as soon as the plane’s wheels hit the tarmac at DFW! (Yes, Oklahoma beat Texas!) Same-sex couples could drive across the country without having to plan their routes to avoid non-marriage-equality states. Besides the psychological reasons for wanting our marriages intact, we had practical reasons. If one spouse had a medical emergency and ended up in a hospital – or dead – the laws of the state would determine whether the other could make medical decisions and body-disposition arrangements or whether the two were “strangers under the law.” These things were among the reasons we wanted and needed marriage equality in the first place, and they were important whether we were at home or traveling. Committed, loving same-sex couples had long yearned for the ability to take care of each other and to protect their financial and property rights in the event of a death. Before marriage was possible, some gay couples became legally next-of-kin through adult adoption, in which one partner would legally adopt the other to establish familial rights. Such was the case with Bruce Schultz and Jared Bruce, who obtained an adult adoption when they were both 50 years old in 2005. Thus related under the law, they were not eligible to marry when same-sex marriage was legalized in Oklahoma in 2014 and across the United States in 2015. But longing to have a legal relationship that truly fit their status as life partners, they sought to have their adult adoption vacated. Represented by attorney Mike Redman, who was then the Oklahoma ACLU president and a longtime OkEq board member, the couple obtained the first reversal of an adult adoption from the Oklahoma Supreme Court on Feb. 1, 2017, and were legally married at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center on that same day. They had been together 35 years. “I was orphaned at 10 o’clock in the morning and married at 5,” Jared Bruce said Friday. Their case set a precedent for other adult adoptions to be vacated when deemed by a court to be in the best interest of the parties. For their dedication and determination in this cause, “the Bruces,” as they are known, were honored with the Bishop-Baldwin, Barton & Phillips Civil Rights Advocacy Award in 2018. Redman received the award the next year. The adoption of children is another legal issue that was affected by marriage equality. On Nov. 20, 2015, Julie and Crystal Loveland-Davis, represented by attorneys (and husbands) Chris Brecht-Smith and Michael Brecht-Smith, both past OkEq board presidents, obtained the first same-sex second-parent adoption in the state of Oklahoma for their 3-year-old daughter. Kyler Loveland-Davis was born June 1, 2013, and the couple were legally married nine days after marriage became possible for them in Oklahoma in October 2014. As Oklahomans for Equality noted in its Feb. 10, 2016, eNews, “LGBT families have existed for years, but only recently has Oklahoma law begun recognizing us.” To help our families navigate the legal waters of protecting their family members, OkEq held an informational seminar on a variety of family law topics, including marriage, adoption, divorce, child custody and military service as it relates to family law. The event was facilitated by Chris Brecht-Smith, who talked about adoption and child custody issues and answered questions from the audience. As we approach Oklahomans for Equality’s Tulsa Pride parade and festival on Oct. 17 – just a week and a half away – we recognize that while we still have a long way to go in gaining equal rights for all LGBTQ people, we can look back with pride on how far we’ve come. We have achieved marriage equality and the benefits that come with it. Happy anniversary, everyone. This is a day of celebration for all of us. And happy Pride! --- Mary Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oklahoma marriage equality 12th anniversary article Subject The topic of the resource Oklahoma marriage equality history Description An account of the resource Oklahoma marriage equality lawsuit plaintiff Mary Bishop-Baldwin writes about the case that brought marriage equality to Oklahoma and the family rights advances for LGBTQ people that have sprung from that. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mary Bishop-Baldwin Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Oklahomans for Equality Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Oct. 6, 2026 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Oklahomans for Equality Type The nature or genre of the resource Article Bishop-Baldwin Bruce Schultz Crystal Loveland-Davis don holladay Gay Phillips James Warner III Jane Wiseman Jared Bruce Joe Thai Julie Loveland-Davis Kyler Loveland-Davis marriage equality mary bishop Mike Redman Oklahoma Oklahomans for Equality sharon baldwin Sue Barton Toby Jenkins https://history.okeq.org/files/original/9bbcf8d22dc8cfa755d99f9c3f951e91.jpg ef11742fc607628b9b6078f36ef0bd2b https://history.okeq.org/files/original/83c45a19cc065ad7cc5289bd2a7c5db3.jpg c23449070396307f61f823718ec5101d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oklahoma Leather Association Subject The topic of the resource Oklahoma Leather Association Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Oklahoma Leather Association Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Oklahomans for Equality Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roy Raper (Pup Cerus) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Oklahomans for Equality Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Oklahoma Leather Association Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Oklahoma Leather Association Photos Subject The topic of the resource Photos of Oklahoma Leather Association Inaugural Tulsa Eagle Mr. Leather Competition Description An account of the resource 2 photos from the Oklahoma Leather Association taken at the Tulsa Eagle for the OkLA Mr. Leather competition. The group photo depicts Tulsa Eagle Mr. Leather's producer, Daddy Red, the owner of the Tulsa Eagle, Scott, and judges Brad, J Baby, and Tyler. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Oklahoma Leather Association (OkLA) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource c. 2026 2026 Leather Mr. Leather Mr. Leather 2026 Mr. Leather Contest OkLA Oklahoma Leather Association Oklahoma Leather Association (OkLA) Oklahoma Mr. Leather Oklahoma Mr. Leather (OML) Oklahoma Mr. Leather 2026 OML OML 2026 Tulsa Eagle https://history.okeq.org/files/original/8b7c9d72a84e915c1191a9d6c29ab1d4.pdf a29770896e0ab29e037fc23ede39718a PDF Text Text 9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made Transgender Americans, including student athletes and military veterans, have remained a consistent target. NICO DIALESANDRO SEP 12, 2026 31 1 10 Share Photo by the White House. https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=215278647… 1/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made Over the past 100 days, President Donald Trump and his administration have intensified their campaign against LGBTQ people, with transgender Americans the most consistent target. Federal agencies have threatened schools and healthcare providers with investigations, funding cuts and legal action over gender-affirming policies and trans care. Several lower courts have blocked and limited some of the administration’s efforts while the Supreme Court has upheld Trump-supported stat bans on trans athletes. Here is a chronological list of the administration’s latest actions centered on LGBT Americans, along with responses to those actions—from court rulings to research reports. June 5, 2026 The Department of Justice (DOJ) and Cleveland Clinic come to an agreement to gender-affirming care for transgender minors, including the prescription of pube blockers and the provision of hormone therapy. Under the deal, the Ohio medica center admits no liability and denies all allegations but agrees to pay $308,000 to resolve false billing allegations and commits an additional $2 million for detransition care. June 7, 2026 U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth issues an injunction blocking the Federal Bureau of Prisons from transferring 14 transgender women to men’s prisons. Th follows Trump’s 2025 executive order “Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal Government,” which declared sex immutable and sought the removal of incarcerated trans women fro women’s prisons. June 9, 2026 https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=215278647… 2/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration announces its intention to reinstate the LGBTQ option on the 988 suicide hotline, which the Trump administration had axed last year. However, later reporting reveals The Trevor Project, the nonprofit originally behind the LGBTQ option, is being shut out from collaborating on the relaunched program, leading advocates to express concern about its implementation. June 10, 2026 Three national HIV medical associations and two healthcare providers sue the Trump administration over new restrictions on the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Progr the country’s largest federal safety-net program for low-income people living wit HIV. The new grant conditions prohibit providers from using federal money for gender-affirming care or to promote what the administration calls “gender ideology.” Plaintiffs say the policy also prevents medical staff from acknowledgin and respecting transgender patients’ identities. June 11, 2026 The Department of Education’s (DOE) Office for Civil Rights (OCR) accuses four Kansas school districts of failing to comply with Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972. The OCR alleges the school districts violated federal civil rights law by allowing transgender students to access bathrooms, locker rooms a in some cases, sports teams aligned with their gender identity. The OCR says the districts “must come into compliance with Title IX or risk further enforcement action,” which could include the loss of federal funding. During a press event, Trump falsely claims that six states take away children from their parents and subject them to “transgender mutilization.” It is unclear what h is referring to, leading many on social media to question his lucidity. Research published in 2024 in the journal JAMA Network Open found that gender-affirmi https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=215278647… 3/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made surgeries on minors are rare and that the majority of them are breast reductions both cisgender males and transgender people. June 12, 2026 The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) issues a directive ordering VA health facilities to eliminate initiatives focused on gender identity. One program, LGBT Veteran Care Coordinators, which was initially slated to remain in operation wit the reference to LGBTQ people removed from its name, was eventually dismantl altogether in July. June 16, 2026 The Department of Health and Human Services’ (HHS) Health Resources and Services Administration proposes collecting information about gender-affirming care from federally supported health centers. Under the proposal, the centers wo be required to report whether they provide puberty blockers, hormone therapy o transition-related surgeries to patients under 19, regardless of which funding source pays for the care. Advocates warn the data could help federal investigator identify and target providers. June 17, 2026 The Federal Trade Commission and the Republican attorneys general of Alaska, Iowa, Nebraska and Texas sue the World Professional Association for Transgend Health. The lawsuit accuses the organization of using deceptive claims to promo gender-affirming care for minors. The DOE opens a Title IX investigation into North Carolina’s Buncombe County Schools for allowing transgender girls to use girls’ restrooms. In its announceme the DOE repeatedly refers to the trans female students as male. https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=215278647… 4/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made June 18, 2026 The DOE opens three investigations into Michigan school districts. The investigations concern transgender students’ participation in athletics and acces locker rooms. Parents of students protest transgender students’ participation in sports. Screenshot from CBS News. June 23, 2026 The DOE launches investigations into the Maryland State Department of Educat and school districts in Montgomery, Prince George’s and Frederick counties. Th department alleges policies allowing transgender students to use facilities and participate on sports teams corresponding with their gender identity violate Titl IX. https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=215278647… 5/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made Eight activists, three of whom are trans, are sentenced to prison terms of 30-100 years for their connection or participation in an anti-ICE protest in Texas last ye The case was the Trump administration’s first major legal action in its crackdow on so-called antifa terrorists. Antifa is not an organization but rather a decentralized movement focused on militant opposition to fascism. June 24, 2026 A federal judge blocks the DOJ from using grand jury subpoenas to obtain the medical records of transgender patients who received gender-affirming care as minors at New York hospitals. U.S. District Judge Katherine Polk Failla finds tha Trump’s executive order that seeks to end gender-affirming care for minors is lik an unconstitutional attempt to “demonize” and “eradicate an entire population o transgender people,” rather than a legitimate criminal inquiry. The decision represents another setback for the administration’s ongoing effort to obtain priv medical information from transgender minors. June 26, 2026 Trump’s Religious Liberty Commission delivers its draft report on “emerging threats to religious liberty” to the president. The report portrays opposition to transgender healthcare and LGBTQ-inclusive schools as protected religious conduct. It presents Texas surgeon Eithan Haim as a victim of religious persecut for leaking information about transgender patients at Texas Children’s Hospital highlights parents who claim schools pushed “gender ideology” on their children The DOE sends an enforcement letter to Jefferson County Public Schools in Colorado. It threatens the district’s federal funding over policies allowing transgender students to access sports teams, bathrooms, locker rooms and overnight accommodations consistent with their gender identity. June 30, 2026 https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=215278647… 6/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made In a statement titled “Supreme Court Bolsters President Trump’s Push to Elimin Transgender Insanity,” the White House celebrates the high court’s 6-3 decision uphold transgender sports bans in Idaho and West Virginia. The ruling, which rejects the trans plaintiffs’ equal protection claims, has implications for 25 other states with similar laws to Idaho and West Virginia. The DOE and DOJ announce they will take joint “enforcement measures” agains Kansas City, Kansas Public Schools after alleging the district violated federal parental rights law maintaining a policy that prevents school officials from disclosing a student’s “transgender status or gender nonconforming presentation others, including parents.” Enforcement measures could include judicial proceedings and the loss of federal funding, according to the departments. A federal court certifies a nationwide class of transgender military personnel, paving the way for a potential class action lawsuit challenging Trump’s military ban. The decision temporarily protects current transgender service members fro being discharged while the lawsuit proceeds. July 2, 2026 A federal judge blocks the DOJ from obtaining identifying information and med records for transgender patients who received gender-affirming care as minors a Lucile Packard Children’s Hospital Stanford. U.S. District Judge P. Casey Pitts fi that patients are likely to prove the government’s demand violates their constitutional right to medical privacy. He describes the subpoenas as part of a “bad-faith campaign” to intimidate hospitals into ending lawful gender-affirmin care. https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=215278647… 7/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made U.S. District Judge P. Casey Pitts. July 13, 2026 The Department of Health and Human Services abandons a proposed rule that sought to block Medicare and Medicaid funding from hospitals that provide gender-affirming care to trans youth. (While a similar rule is implemented in August, it is greatly reduced in scope and only applies to Medicaid.) July 14, 2026 https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=215278647… 8/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made HHS formally eliminates a Biden-era rule requiring states and tribes to ensure LGBTQ foster children have access to affirming placements and supportive serv and are protected against harassment, mistreatment and abuse. The Trump administration had previously joined litigation against the Biden-era protections prior to removing them through the federal rulemaking process. July 15, 2026 During a speech at the U.S. Army War College, Trump falsely claims that companies receiving money under the CHIPS and Science Act, a federal statute t authorizes spending to boost semiconductor manufacturing, were required to hir transgender executives: “If you weren’t transgender ... you didn’t qualify.” The wo “transgender” does not appear anywhere in the law. July 16, 2026 The DOJ tells the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit that it plans to ask t Supreme Court to restore Trump’s ban on transgender military personnel. It also asks the federal appeals court to delay enforcement of a decision protecting curr service members while the administration prepares its petition. July 21, 2026 HIV/AIDS-focused research foundation amfAR publishes a report finding that more than 1,700 HIV clinics have closed and over 16,000 jobs have been lost as a result of the Trump administration’s funding cuts to the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, or PEPFAR. July 26, 2026 Days after making a joke comparing CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins to trans influencer Dylan Mulvaney at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner, Trump https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=215278647… 9/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made posts a bizarre AI-generated image merging their likenesses to Truth Social. July 27, 2026 The DOE and DOJ announce they are taking “significant action” against school districts in Maryland and Michigan over policies that prevent transgender stude from being outed to their parents. The administration accuses Anne Arundel County Public Schools and Ann Arbor Public Schools of “secretly transitioning” children in violation of the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act. Such violations could lead to judicial proceedings and loss of federal funding. July 28, 2026 The DOE opens investigations into Denver Public Schools and Washington’s Be School District. Bethel is probed over a Pride display that reportedly included testosterone vials, while Denver is investigated over a classroom assignment that allegedly required students of the same sex to kiss. The teacher who had given sa assignment had been fired in a unanimous decision by the district school board over a month before the investigation began. July 29, 2026 The DOE opens an investigation into the Minnesota Department of Education o dolls designed to teach children about gender identity. The MyGender Dolls hav interchangeable clothing and anatomy and use gender-neutral names. Federal officials call the materials “perverted ideologies” and threaten consequences und the Protection of Pupil Rights Amendment. The DOE finds that Burlington Public Schools in Massachusetts violated federal law by requiring students to participate in a health survey after their parents opt them out. The Youth Risk Behavior Survey, conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, includes questions about sexual orientation and gender https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=21527864… 10/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made identity. In a statement, a spokesperson for the district says, “The District identified and addressed this matter in 2024 and 2025, and we no longer have a contract with the outside vendor that drafted the original survey in question” an that they will respond to the DOE’s findings “expeditiously.” July 30, 2026 The DOE demands that California and Washington explain how they will change policies preventing transgender students from being outed to their parents. The department cites recent court rulings and warns that it will consider further acti if the states do not revise their guidance. The states’ current policies dictate that teachers not inform parents of their child’s sexual and gender identities if doing is likely to lead to abuse in the home. Aug. 3, 2026 The New York Times reports that transgender troops who appeal their removal under the trans military ban are being handled in secretive closed-door hearings similar to those used to discipline troops for domestic abuse, theft or drug use. T Times spoke with an attorney who said some troops were barred from attending their own hearings because they refused to present as their assigned gender at birth. The administration did not respond to the Times’ report. Aug. 5, 2026 The DOJ reaches an agreement with Connecticut Children’s Medical Center requiring it to stop providing puberty blockers, hormone therapy and transitionrelated surgeries to minors. The hospital also agrees to a civil penalty and dedica $500,000 to services for people seeking to reverse their transitions. Connecticut Children’s denies wrongdoing and admits no liability. Aug. 11, 2026 https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=21527864… 11/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services finalizes a rule prohibiting fede Medicaid and Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) funding from being used for gender-affirming care for minors. The rule applies to Medicaid patients under 18 and CHIP patients under 19 and covers puberty blockers, hormone therapy and surgeries. States can continue paying for the care with state-only funding, but the federal restriction takes effect Oct. 13. https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=21527864… 12/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=21527864… 13/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.’s official portrait (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services). Aug. 12, 2026 HHS releases a 64-page report titled “Wolves in White Coats: How Doctors and Hospitals Pushed and Profited from the Fraud of ‘Gender Medicine.’” The report accuses hospitals, providers and medical associations of profiting from transgen healthcare and misusing billing codes. Contributors include representatives from the Ethics and Public Policy Center, Independent Women’s Forum and Center fo Christian Virtue, organizations with histories of opposing transgender rights. Using the report as justification, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. refers mor than 100 providers to the agency’s inspector general for possible violations of federal billing and healthcare laws. Aug. 14, 2026 The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals revives a DOJ subpoena seeking informati from QueerDoc, a telehealth provider specializing in gender-affirming care. A lower court previously quashed the subpoena after finding that it lacked a legitimate law-enforcement purpose. The appeals court sends unresolved questio about the request’s scope and burden back to the lower court, meaning QueerDo not immediately required to provide every document requested by the governme A federal judge vacates a Trump administration policy excluding gender-affirmin care from the Affordable Care Act’s essential health benefits. The judge finds tha HHS failed to submit a legally required actuarial report before changing the benefits. The decision restores financial protections for the care in states that all it, including out-of-pocket limits and protections against annual or lifetime coverage caps. Aug. 17, 2026 https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=21527864… 14/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made Speaking at the Iowa State Fair while campaigning for Republican Rep. Zach Nu Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth uses an anti-transgender slur: “At the Departme of War, we do training, not trannies,” said Hegseth, who oversees the departmen implementing Trump’s ban on transgender military personnel. Hegseth uses transphobic slur at Iowa State Fair CNN Watch on Pete Hegseth at the Iowa State Fair. Clip from CNN on YouTube. Aug. 19, 2026 Maryland’s Anne Arundel County Public Schools changes its transgender-studen privacy policy after the Trump administration threatens its federal funding. The new policy allows parents to access records mentioning a student’s gender identi transgender status, sexual orientation, chosen name and pronouns. Aug. 21, 2026 https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=21527864… 15/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made At a campaign rally in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, Trump falsely claims that hospitals are performing operations to reverse patients’ gender transitions at his order. No executive order requires hospitals to perform transition-reversal surgeries. The DOJ settlements with Texas Children’s Hospital, Cleveland Clinic and Connecticut Children’s instead require the hospitals to finance services for people seeking to detransition. Trump on route to Myrtle Beach. Photo by the White House. Aug. 24, 2026 During a White House back-to-school event, President Trump and Education Secretary Linda McMahon take aim at schools that affirm transgender students’ identities. Trump says a school that tells a child he or she is “trapped in the wron body” is “committing child abuse,” while McMahon claims that “the Biden https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=21527864… 16/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made administration allowed schools to secretly transition students without parents’ knowledge.” Aug. 30, 2026 In an interview with Fox News, Trump encourages his supporters to “pretend [he on the ballot” and go out and vote, adding if Republicans don’t win midterm elections, “transgender will never end”: “Our country’s going to be in sad shape, because we’re going to go through a lot of things. You’re going to have the taxes raised, you’re going to have crazy things happening, like the men in women’s spo will never end. None of this stuff—transgender will never end.” Additional reporting by Hope Pisoni. If objective, nonpartisan, rigorous, LGBTQ-focused journalism is important to you, please consider making a tax-deductible donation in the U.S. through our 501(c)(3) fiscal sponsor, Resource Impact, by clicking this button: https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=21527864… 17/18 �9/15/26, 4:23 PM Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made 31 Likes ∙ 10 Restacks Previous Next Discussion about this post Comments Restacks Write a comment... Jessica Johnson Jessica Johnson 3d Absolutely disgusting, and on Pride Month of all months? LIKE REPLY © 2026 Uncloseted Media · Privacy ∙ Terms ∙ Collection notice Substack is the home for great culture https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=21527864… 18/18 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Uncloseted Anti-Gay Trump Administration Article Subject The topic of the resource Uncloseted Media Article: "Days 501-600: Every Anti-LGBTQ Move the Trump Administration Has Made" by Nico Dialesandro from September 12, 2026 Description An account of the resource 18 pages of an article by Uncloseted Media regarding all of the anti-LGBTQ+ actions taken by the Trump administration between their 501st and 600th day in office, written by Nico Dialesandro with additional reporting by Hope Pisoni. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nico Dialesandro Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived https://www.unclosetedmedia.com/p/days-501-600-every-anti-lgbtq-move?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2837882&post_id=215278647&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=f2yki&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource September 12, 2026 2026 988 suicide hotline ACA Affordable Care Act Affordable Care Act (ACA) AIDS/HIV AIDS/HIV fundraising AIDS/HIV laws amfAR anti gay anti-ICE bathroom access California CDC Center for Christian Virtue Center for Disease Control (CDC) Center for Disease Control and Prevention Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Children's Health Insurance Program Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) CHIP civil rights Cleveland Clinic Colorado Connecticut Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal Government Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth Department of Education Department of Education (DOE) Department of Education Office for Civil Rights Department of Health and Human Services Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Department of Health and Human Services Health Resources and Services Department of Justice Department of Justice (DOJ) Department of Veteran Affairs Department of Veteran Affairs (VA) detransitioning discrimination District Judge Katherine Polk Failla District Judge P. Casey Pitts District Judge Royce Lamberth DOE DOE Office for Civil Rights Donald Trump Dylan Mulvaney Education Secretary Linda McMahon Eithan Haim Ethics and Public Policy Center executive orders Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act federal funding Federal Trade Commission Foster care foster children Fox News gender affirming gender affirming care gender identity HHS HHS Health Resources and Services HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. HIV HIV prevention HIV/AIDs HIV/AIDS and the Law HIV/AIDs outreach HIV/AIDS research Hope Pisoni hormone replacement therapy (HRT) hormone therapy hotline HRT ICE Idaho Independent Women's Forum Iowa JAMA Network Open Kaitlan Collins Kansas Katherine Polk Failla LGBT Veteran Care Coordinators Linda McMahon Maryland Massachusetts Medicaid Michigan military ban military inclusion Minnesota MyGender Dolls New York New York Times Nico Dialesandro North Carolina OCR Office for Civil Rights Office for Civil Rights (OCR) Ohio P. Casey Pitts PEPFAR Pete Hegseth President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) Protection of Pupil Rights Amendment puberty blockers QueerDoc religious liberty Religious Liberty Commission Republican Party RFK Jr. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Royce Lamberth Ryan White Ryan White care Act Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Act (CARE) sexual orientation discrimination South Carolina Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Supreme Court Texas The Trevor Project Title IX trans athletes trans healthcare trans military bans Trans Prision trans sports bans trans youth Transgender transgender healthcare transgender military bans transgender sports bans Trevor Project Trump administration U.S. Army War College Unloseted Media VA veterans Washington West Virginia Wolves in White Coats: How Doctors and Hospitals Pushed and Profited from the Fraud of 'Gender Medicine' World Professional Association for Transgender Health Youth Risk Behavior Survey https://history.okeq.org/files/original/054410a11d0e4eebba612f2831bfacc1.jpg fcd55a1ff67db94ef67782801f162ce3 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/0c80269a1d163b183e9c3da3ba39b57b.jpg 60208ec5b685c5a7b7e7f27088caead0 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/496c1b24b4fed760d8424df88dbb77b4.jpg 98cf8c3c78e491a4bee37514758e72a9 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/ff5693216d0fd6c838d8334e091882de.pdf 5af46d68a61d420ad3dc70fe3a958df1 PDF Text Text Transgender History Month series By Mary Bishop-Baldwin Oklahomans for Equality History Project The backlash is real. With the achievement of marriage equality in Oklahoma 12 years ago and nationwide a year later, it seemed that LGBTQ people were on our way to being accepted as part of a diverse society. But having lost that battle, the culture warriors made transgender people their next target and began attacking them through ongoing legislation, executive orders, rhetoric and intimidation that spurs physical violence. Transgender people must deal with much higher rates of physical violence than do cisgender people. Among the key findings of the “Gender Identity Disparities in Criminal Victimization: National Crime Victimization Survey, 2017-2018” study by the Williams Institute at the UCLA School of Law: • • • Transgender people (16+) are victimized over four times more often than cisgender people. In 2017-2018, transgender people experienced 86.2 victimizations per 1,000 people compared to 21.7 victimizations per 1,000 people for cisgender people. Transgender women and men had higher rates of violent victimization (86.1 and 107.5 per 1,000 people, respectively) than cisgender women and men (23.7 and 19.8 per 1,000 people, respectively). In 2017-2018, transgender households had higher rates of property victimization (214.1 per 1,000 households) than cisgender households (108 per 1,000 households). And the Human Rights Campaign reports that “in the 12 years from January 2013 through Nov. 2024, HRC and other advocates identified 372 transgender and gender-expansive individuals who were victims of fatal violence in the United States. … People living at the intersections of multiple marginalized identities have been disproportionately impacted relative to others. Specifically, Black transgender women, who face multiple layers of violence due to their gender identity, gender, and race, comprise 61% of all victims of fatal violence against transgender and gender-expansive people.” History shows that transgender people have always existed, and the Oklahomans for Equality History Project is taking August – Transgender History Month – as an opportunity to highlight some of the contributions of transgender people in Oklahoma and put a spotlight on the attacks that have inundated them in recent years. There’s a lot of information, so we are presenting it in a series of three articles that are being distributed through email and social media from Monday, Aug. 24, through Wednesday, Aug. 26, 2026. Part 1 looks at transgender people’s progression over time from invisibility in society to the out-and-proud individuals they have become, as well as their inclusion in the 2SLGBTQIA+ community. Part 2 considers the transgender community’s needs and how the larger community has responded. Part 3 showcases brave transgender individuals who have taken stands in the �public spotlight and the resilience of the trans community. The entire series is presented here on the History Project’s website. PART 1: FROM INVISIBILITY TO INCLUSION A survey of early documents from Oklahomans for Equality’s forerunner organizations, Oklahomans for Human Rights and Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights, turns up no references to the word “transgender” or other words that might indicate that transgender issues were among the organization’s original concerns in the 1980s. But through the organization, LGBTQ people found each other, and transgender people have been included in the organization’s mission for more than a quarter-century. Transgender issues were on Tulsans’ radars at least by 1994, when the Tulsa Family News’ March edition included news briefs on Washington state legislation that would “make it illegal to place a foster child in a household with a homosexual, bisexual, transsexual or transvestite” and on the formation of a national group, Gay and Lesbian Americans, which, despite its limiting name, said it was “committed to civil rights for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people” in the United States. The same issue included an advertisement for a psychologist who was “sensitive to the challenges of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual & Transgendered Individuals, Couples & Families.” (Note the “ed” at the end of the word “Transgender” – a common usage at that time that has since fallen out of practice.) In 1998, during the late Nancy McDonald’s tenure as president of PFLAG National, the organization extended PFLAG’s mission to include transgender people. McDonald, a Tulsan, was a driving force behind OkEq’s growth and for inclusion in Tulsa. TOHR had a transgender support group at least by the late 1990s, and transgender issues were among the central priorities for the organization by the new millennium. By the time the Pyramid Project kicked off in 2000 to raise funds for the purchase and renovation of OkEq’s building, the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center, the word “transgender” was included in its mission statement. The TOHR Torch Fall 2002 newsletter is full of references to the organization’s inclusion of transgender people in its mission, programs and community center name, the Tulsa Gay, Lesbian, Bi & Transgender (GLBT) Community Center, which was a rented facility at 2114 S. Memorial Drive at the time. A circa 2003 document in the History Project’s physical archives is specifically about a transgender support group and spells out the group’s mission statement/purpose: “Gender Outreach of Oklahoma is a volunteer, educational, outreach, support, and social organization for The Transgendered Community (TTC), their significant others (SOs), families and friends. The purpose of Gender Outreach of Oklahoma is to act as a nonsexual support group for TTC and their significant others.” The document says that: �Toward this end, it will: • Provide programs, speakers, services, and social activities for the support of the members and to promote the acceptance of TTC. • Provide opportunities for TTC, for the purpose of developing self-understanding and self-acceptance. • Provide Outreach by passing on knowledge and understanding of TTC to related organizations and to the public. • Assist members with problems related to their specific needs, whenever possible. • Assist SOs in the establishment and continued existence of their own interest. • Encourage members to participate in Gender Outreach of Oklahoma Unity Events. • Encourage members to participate in Gay/Lesbian/Bi-sexual/Transgendered community (GLBT) promotions of legislation affecting anti-discrimination of the GLBT community. The group, a part of TOHR, was hoping a new community center could provide its members a room for meetings, doctors and therapists, a safe place to be themselves, “2 Lockers for the cross-dressers to store their clothes” and “a dressing room,” apparently because its members did not feel free to dress in alignment with their gender identities at home or in other places. Also in the History Project’s physical archives is a copy of a grant application to an organization called Resist dated Nov. 28, 2004, which mentions that TOHR had held a “highly successful” regional conference on transgender issues in 2003 and that “TOHR’s Gender Outreach Program provides education, meeting space and social interaction for northeastern Oklahoma’s transgender and intersex population.” An accompanying chart shows that TOHR at the time had one transgender board member and five active volunteers who were transgender. An archived 2016 document on the Gender Outreach Program lists the average monthly attendance as follows: • General meeting – 35 • FTM specific meeting – 11 • Teen specific meeting – 11 • Parent specific meeting – 20 • Gender non binary – 5 • Bartlesville – 5 Yes, the document indicates that “OkEq has started a transgender support group in Bartlesville. For now,” it says, “that group will meet monthly at First Presbyterian Church. Thank you to Josie Peacock for being willing to facilitate that meeting. The Tulsa group will �assist in getting that group up and running. Thank you to the Bartlesville PFLAG group for pointing out the need for a transgender group in that area.” In 2013, OkEq’s transgender program was featured in the documentary “Just Gender,” which premiered at Tulsa’s Circle Cinema to a packed house, the Dec. 30, 2013, OkEq eNews reported. The same issue noted that “youth and parents from our transgender youth and family support group continue to receive international attention. Taylor Burns, our family therapist, and physician Laura Arrowsmith have presented at more than a dozen conferences, universities and medical societies nationwide. Both Taylor and Laura have worked with several Oklahoma school districts to provide services for families with transgender children.” The Feb. 20, 2013, OkEq eNews notes that “to honor the courage and bravery of the transgender community, Havah Gordon has made a donation to OkEq's Be Our Voice, Give a Day campaign and is sponsoring the Equality Center for the week of Sun, February 17th, 2013 through Sat, February 23rd, 2013.” Dr. Arrowsmith brought National Center for Transgender Equality founding Executive Director Mara Kiesling to Tulsa and the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center in 2014. OkEq's Gender Outreach Program held a daylong workshop on transgender issues in April 2015. Dr. Arrowsmith, a board member of the National Center for Transgender Equality and a former Oklahomans for Equality board member, provided the keynote address. On New Year’s Day 2016, OkEq hosted a panel discussion featuring Dr. Arrowsmith, Taylor Burns and attorney Alyssa Bryant after a viewing of the film “The Danish Girl,” about the Danish artist who was one of the first recipients of sexual reassignment surgery in the 1920s, at the Circle Cinema. OkEq’s Gender Support Program has continued its services through the years, offering “support, education, and community for transgender and intersex individuals in a safe, welcoming space,” a 2025 Facebook post says. “Breakout groups for Non-Binary folks, Trans Men, and Trans Women. … Come as you are, find your people, and grow together in community.” PART 2: NEEDS AND RESPONSE The Oklahomans for Equality History Project archives include a September 2005 Needs Assessment Report on Tulsa’s Gay Community from the Tulsa Community Foundation, the Tulsa Reaches Out Project and the Community Service Council of Greater Tulsa, which said the following percentages of transgender survey respondents perceived these issues as among the Top 5 services needed for GLBT people: �       50.0% Advocacy at the State Legislature 37.5% Physical Health Services 37.5% Mental Health Services 37.5% STD/HIV Prevention 37.5% Public Awareness about GLBT Issues 37.5% GLBT Center 37.5% Legal Services Related to Sexual Orientation Over the years, Oklahomans for Equality has made strides to meet those needs through advocacy, services, partnerships and education. Here’s how our archives reveal those efforts: LEGISLATIVE ADVOCACY The May 2006 edition of the Tulsa Star includes mention of an upcoming Day at the Legislature sponsored by TOHR and Oklahoma PFLAG when participants could visit with legislators about the needs of the LGBT community. OkEq has continued the tradition of hosting annual days for advocacy at the state Capitol and has sent representatives at other times, as well, specifically to talk to legislators and advocate for or against specific bills that would have protected or targeted LGBTQ people. In March 2008, Oklahomans for Equality hosted a press conference to denounce thenstate Rep. Sally Kern’s widely publicized statement that homosexuality is "the biggest threat that our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam." The press conference agenda went beyond the issue of sexual orientation and Islamophobia to include gender identity. “Citing recent acts of violence against gay and transgender people, (thenOklahomans for Equality Executive Director Justice) Waidner said comments such as Kern's have dangerous effects, adding that ‘Rep. Kern has repeatedly used her public office to demonize lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Oklahomans and to attempt to deny them the exact same civil liberties she now defends so passionately,’” the Tulsa World reported. OkEq sent out an Action Alert in July 2020 encouraging people to contact the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development in protest of a proposed rule that would have established homeless shelter admission and placement policies based on a person's biological sex assigned at birth rather than self-identified gender identity. “By removing these protections, shelters and programs that receive or operate using HUD grants are now able to ignore nondiscrimination protections for transgender people, leaving them vulnerable to being denied shelter and forced out onto the streets,” OkEq said in the Action Alert. OkEq also noted that “one in three transgender Americans has been homeless at some point in their lives,” making the need for this action all the more critical. The proposed rule was never implemented. �Transgender-rights advocates marched through downtown Tulsa on March 31, 2023, to protest bills in the Oklahoma Legislature targeting transgender care. The march went from the Central Library to OkEq’s Dennis R. Neill Equality Center, with participants shouting, “This is what humanity looks like,” the entire way, the Tulsa World reported. While advocating before the Oklahoma Legislature and federal government has been challenging, to say the least, the city of Tulsa’s government has shown much more willingness and intention to be inclusive. In 2015, then-Mayor Dewey Bartlett signed an ordinance that for the first time included gender identity in the city’s list of protected classes under its fair-housing policy. And in 2019, after OkEq had worked for a decade to persuade the city of Tulsa to include gender identity and expression to its employment nondiscrimination policy, then-Mayor G.T. Bynum signed an executive order doing just that, The Gayly reported. And in 2020, the Tulsa City Council passed and Bynum signed the Hate Crime Protections Ordinance, adding LGBTQIA+ hate crime protections at the local level. SERVICES, EDUCATION AND PARTNERSHIPS On Dec. 11, 2018, Oklahomans for Equality was notified that it had received a $75,000 grant so that it could hire a full-time employee to coordinate medical services in the Equality Center’s newly renovated (in 2017) health clinic so OkEq could address LGBTQ health disparities and the “stigmatization … not experienced by heterosexual, cisgender Oklahomans” that often prevents LGBTQ people “from talking openly about their medical conditions and needs with medical providers,” in the words of OkEq’s grant application. This money started the clinic that now provides medical services available nowhere else in the state for transgender health care, as well as for HIV/AIDS care. To further its outreach, Oklahomans for Equality provided a webinar with expert panelists on “Understanding Transgender Healthcare & Wellness” in 2023. The webinar was “for anyone interested in learning from experts in the field about gender-affirming care for adults and youth, debunking myths, and bringing awareness to this important topic,” the OkEq eNews article announcing the event said. The event moderator was trans advocate and consultant Lucas Hall, and the speakers included Dr. Al Carlozzi, Dr. Laura Arrowsmith, Dr. Shauna Lawlis, Elliot Parker and Kelly Kemp. Topics to be discussed included “processes and protocols for transgender youth and adults seeking genderaffirming care and support, understanding gender-diversity from a medical and scientific perspective, addressing common myths about trans people of all ages and the genderaffirming care they could receive, and best practices for supporting transgender youth and adults.” Outside health-care practitioners and medical facilities were crucial to some transgender Oklahomans’ gender-affirming care at that time, but more people have come to rely on Oklahomans for Equality’s health clinic in the wake of the enactment of Senate Bill 904 into law in May. The law “restricts the use of state funds, facilities, and resources for genderaffirming healthcare, creating new barriers for transgender Oklahomans seeking medically �necessary care and increasing uncertainty for healthcare providers across the state,” OkEq Executive Director Hailey Briggs wrote in a letter to constituents this spring. The law resulted in a total shutdown of gender-affirming care by those providers and facilities that accept any state money. But because OkEq’s clinic receives no state funds, it has been free to carry on the work that other providers have abandoned. “Our commitment remains unchanged: our clinic is open, and we will continue doing everything we can to ensure transgender Oklahomans have access to affirming, compassionate care,” Briggs wrote in announcing a $10,000 challenge grant from Dennis Neill and John Southard to raise additional funds to care for the influx of patients the OkEq clinic was receiving after other facilities turned them away. And in March of this year, the Tulsa Flyer published a story on mental health in the LGBTQ community, particularly in transgender and nonbinary people. Oklahomans for Equality’s counseling services, including clinical social worker and therapist Matthew Gibbons, were featured heavily in that article. Former OkEq board member Conor Cleary, a lawyer who then was an associate at Hall, Estill, Hardwick, Gable, Golden & Nelson, facilitated an “OUTlaw Legal Workshop” twice a month at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center in 2013, the OkEq eNews from Feb. 20 of that year indicates. Topics were to include wills, rights of survivorship, medical issues, durable power of attorney and inheritances, transgender name changes and trans rights. That same eNews edition also mentioned the continuing Gender Outreach Program, which was to provide “support, education and social opportunities for transgender and intersex individuals.” In 2020, attorney Joshua Payton started OkEq’s Name Change & Gender Marker Change Clinic, which continues to meet monthly at the Equality Center. Payton, who with his wife, Jennifer Payton, incorporated the Oklahoma Equality Law Center as a nonprofit in 2023, received the Bishop-Baldwin, Barton & Phillips Civil Rights Advocacy Award at the OkEq Equality Gala in 2022 for his work on behalf of transgender people. LAWS AND LEGAL CASES In 2021, the state of Oklahoma began allowing gender nonbinary changes to birth certificates, but soon thereafter, through an executive order, it became the first state in the nation to reverse action and ban nonbinary gender markers on birth certificates. Gov. Kevin Stitt also signed House Joint Resolution 1032, which repealed the ability for residents to change their gender markers on Oklahoma driver's licenses. With the rapid changes in state laws and policies, “I may not immediately know the answer to a question, but I pledge to walk in solidarity with those seeking clarity until we have an answer,” Payton has said. �Payton successfully represented two transgender students who obtained court orders for gender-marker changes on their school records in 2023. The Oklahoma State Board of Education then refused to make those changes. But Payton’s Oklahoma Equality Law Center and the Oklahoma Appleseed Center for Law and Justice sued the board and thenState Superintendent Ryan Walters and prevailed in June 2025. Payton is also fighting a law signed by Gov. Stitt in March of this year that made it impossible for people to change their gender markers on Oklahoma driver's licenses. The law does not invalidate those licenses that were already changed. Gender markers are just one aspect of the law that has come under attack by the Legislature and governor in recent years, which also have seen the passage of bans on gender-affirming medical care for minors and prohibitions on the use of state funds and properties for gender-affirming care. These policies remain the subject of ongoing state and federal legal challenges. Lambda Legal, for example, reports that it is currently fighting policies targeting transgender people in Oklahoma in the areas of identification documents, school facilities and healthcare. The Fowler v. Stitt case challenges the state’s prohibition of gender-marker changes on birth certificates. “Starting in at least 2007, the Oklahoma State Department of Health (had) permitted transgender people to obtain Oklahoma birth certificates with amended sex designations,” the 10th Circuit court noted in a 2024 ruling. But the 2021 executive order from Gov. Kevin Stitt stopped that practice. The appeals court found that the plaintiffs had a “plausible equal protection claim” and remanded the case back to district court for a ruling consistent with its findings. However, the U.S. Supreme Court vacated that ruling in 2025 and sent the case back to the 10th Circuit for reconsideration. The Bridge v. Oklahoma State Department of Education case challenges 2022’s Senate Bill 615, which prohibits transgender people from using Oklahoma school restrooms that align with their gender identity. The district court ruled in favor of the defendants, and the case is on appeal at the 10th Circuit. In the area of healthcare, the Poe v. Drummond case challenged the law created by 2023’s Senate Bill 613, which bans gender-affirming medical care for transgender minors, but the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a lower court’s ruling upholding the ban. In 2022, Gov. Kevin Stitt signed into law an act to prevent University of Oklahoma medical facilities from providing gender-transition medical services to minors. Oklahomans for Equality distributed a statement on social media that fall and in the Nov. 7, 2022, eNews, saying: “Medical decisions should be between the patient, the parents, and their doctors. The interjection of politicians into that space is wildly inappropriate and nothing more than an act of bullying. This carrot and stick approach to promote their transphobic ideals hurts all Oklahomans who access medical services at University �Hospitals. They would rather deny funding for medical services than respect the rights of transgender kids and their families. Transgender medical care is a form of suicide prevention. Because without this care, our young people often don't live to see adulthood. These are Oklahoma kids who need support and care. To all trans kids and their families, no matter what Oklahoma (legislators) think or do, you are valued, and people will continue to fight for you.” In a case from Tennessee last year, the U.S. Supreme Court said states could legally ban medical treatments such as puberty blockers and hormones for transgender people younger than 18. Also in 2022, Gov. Kevin Stitt signed the “Save Women’s Sports Act,” which prohibits those assigned male at birth from participating in girls’ or women’s sports. This June, hearing cases from Idaho and West Virginia, the Supreme Court ruled that states’ bans on transgender athletes from women’s and girls’ sports teams are legal. PART 3: OUT AND PROUD Despite all the obstacles that are stacked against them, brave and determined transgender people have stood in the public spotlight and have taken stands for their own and others’ rights. Among the first openly transgender public figures in Oklahoma history have been Paula Sophia Schonauer, who was an Oklahoma City police officer when she transitioned in 2001 and who was a candidate for a seat in the Oklahoma House of Representatives in 2014; attorney Brittany Novotny (now Brittany Stewart), a transgender attorney who faced ridicule when she ran in 2010 for the Oklahoma House seat held by Rep. Sally Kern, ROklahoma City (Charlie Meadows, then-chairman of the Oklahoma Conservative Political Action Committee, called Novotny a "confused it."); Mauree Turner, who was elected to the Oklahoma House in 2020 as the nation's first openly nonbinary lawmaker; and Nat Wachowski-Estes, who in 2020 was the first openly transgender candidate for the Tulsa City Council. And in the 2010s Tulsa-area transgender teenagers Katie Hill of Bixby and Arin Andrews of Catoosa made history with local and national publicity about their transition journeys through newspaper stories (“PART ONE: Katie Hill finds herself after 16 years living as a boy”; “PART TWO: Katie Hill braves returning to school, finds love”, “Katie Hill and Arin Andrews attend the Equality Gala held at the Convention Center,”); magazine articles (“I Transitioned From Female to Male as a Teen. Here's My Story”); books (“Rethinking Normal: A Memoir in Transition” by Katie Hill and “Some Assembly Required: The Not-So-Secret Life of a Transgender Teen” by Arin Andrews, both available in OkEq’s Nancy & Joe McDonald Rainbow Library); and modeling for a national ad campaign (“A Barneys Campaign Embraces a Gender Identity Issue”). �Discrimination against transgender people in employment became a topic of public interest across Oklahoma after Rachel Tudor, Ph.D., was denied tenure and dismissed from her position as a professor at Southeastern Oklahoma State University in 2011. Tudor, who had transitioned from male to female during her time on the faculty, sued the university under Title VII, claiming discrimination on the basis of sex. Oklahomans for Equality presented her with the Bishop-Baldwin, Barton & Phillips Civil Rights Advocacy Award at its 2016 Equality Gala. Ten years after her dismissal from the faculty, the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ordered her reinstatement in 2021. RESILIANCE With legislative and administrative attacks continuing to target transgender people, it’s important to remember that through community, they have found ways to flourish and move forward with dignity, grace and pride. Oklahomans for Equality presented the Lynn Riggs Performing Arts Award to transgender baritone Lucia Lucas in 2019 after she made history by performing the lead role in the Tulsa Opera’s presentation of “Don Giovanni” at the Tulsa Performing Arts Center in May of that year. This was the first opera appearance by a trans woman in a principal role in the United States. A film about Lucas’ journey was shown at Tulsa’s Circle Cinema that April, with a mixer with the artist held before the showing and a presentation afterward by Tulsa Opera Artistic Director Tobias Picker about the significance of the transgender movement in opera and performing arts. And on this year’s Transgender Day of Visibility, March 31, Tulsa-based Paully Steele staged an all-trans fashion show at the Equality Center presented by her GENDER magazine in partnership with Twisted Arts and OkEq. The participants were “ready to TEAR UP the runway and celebrate trans creativity, visibility, and community,” a social media post said. Oklahomans for Equality itself has put transgender employees and board members front and center over the years, with Alex Wade, a former OkEq medical services director, serving as deputy director and then interim executive director over the years from 2016 to the early 2020s. Sharon Queen, a transgender Navy veteran who was the Equality Center’s events coordinator, also coordinated the Gender Support Program and helped coordinate a Support Our Troops Rally at the Equality Center in 2017 after President Donald Trump indicated that the government would no longer allow transgender people to serve in the military. Then-OkEq board member Alyssa Bryant spoke at that event, saying in advance that “OkEq will continue to fight the ongoing attempts by regressive forces in our culture, no matter what title or office they hold, to exclude our members from the life and defense of our country.” Krissy Dudley served as OkEq’s administrative coordinator from 2019-2022, and Anna Puhl, who identifies as nonbinary, has recently returned as the Lynn Riggs Theater’s audio and lighting engineer. Puhl raised the nonbinary flag over the Equality Center for the first time during Nonbinary Awareness Week in July 2020. �Oklahomans for Equality continues to bring together and fight for all the diverse aspects of our 2SLGBTQIA+ community. We know that our collection does not reflect the complete history of transgender people in Oklahoma, so we welcome the submission of documents, memorabilia and details that would make our archives more representative. Please contact OkEq at 918-743-4297 or at historyproject@okeq.org if you have items to submit, and visit our History Project website at history.okeq.org to find more examples of how you fit into our history. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Collection] Oklahoma LGBT+ History Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br /><br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Transgender History Month Subject The topic of the resource Transgender History Month Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mary Bishop-Baldwin Description An account of the resource 3 photos and 1 article regarding Transgender History Month. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource August 24, 2026 10th Circuit Court 10th Circuit Court of Appeals 2026 Al Carlozzi Alex Wade Alyssa Bryant Anna Puhl Arin Andrews Be Our Voice Give a Day Bishop-Baldwin Barton and Phillips Civil Rights Advocacy Award Bridge v. Oklahoma State Department of Education Brittany Novotny Brittany Stewart Charlie Meadows Circle Cinema Community Service Council Community Service Council of Greater Tulsa Conor Cleary Dennis Neill Dennis R. Neill Dennis R. Neill Equality Center Department of Housing and Urban Development Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Dewey Barlett discrimination Dr. Al Carlozzi Dr. Laura Arrowsmith Dr. Shauna Lawlis Elliot Parker Equality Gala 2016 Equality Gala 2022 Executive Director Hailey Briggs Fowler v. Stitt Gayly Oklahoman gender affirming gender affirming care Gender magazine gender nonconforming gender nonconforming (GNC) Gender Outreach Gender Outreach Support Group Gender Support Program Glamour Glamour magazine GNC Governor Kevin Stitt Hailey Briggs Hall Estill Hardwick Gable Golden and Nelson hate crime Hate crime legislation hate crimes Hate Crimes Protections Ordinance health care health clinic healthcare history project HJR 1032 House Joint Resolution 1032 HRC HUD Human Rights Campaign Human Rights Campaign (HRC) John Southard Joshua Payton Just Gender Katie Hill Kelly Kemp Kevin Stitt Krissy Dudley Lambda Legal Lambda Legal Defense Laura Arrowsmith Lucas Hall Lucia Lucas Lynn Riggs Performing Arts Award Mara Keisling mary bishop Mary Bishop-Baldwin Matthew Gibbons Mauree Turner name change Name Change and Gender Marker Change Clinic Name Change and Gender Marker Legal Clinic Name Change Clinic Nat Wachowski-Estes National Center for Transgender Equality New York Times non-binary non-discrimination policies nonbinary Nonbinary Awareness Week Nonbinary Awareness Week 2020 OKEQ eNews OkEq Equality Center OKEQ Executive Director OKEQ History Project OKEQ medical services Oklahoma Appleseed Center for Law and Justice Oklahoma Conservative Political Action Committee Oklahoma Equality Law Center Oklahoma House of Representatives Oklahoma State Department of Education Oklahoma State Department of Education (OSDE) Oklahoma State Department of Health Oklahoma State Department of Health (OSDH) Oklahoma State University Oklahoma State University (OSU) Oklahomans for Equality Oklahomans for Equality (OKEQ) Oklahomans for Equality Executive Director OSDE OSDH OSU OUTlaw OUTlaw Legal Workshop Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) Parents Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays Parents Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) Paula Sophia Schonauer PFLAG PFLAG Bartesville Poe v. Drummond Pyramid Project Rachel Tudor Rethinking Normal Rethinking Normal: A Memoir in Transition Ryan Walters Sally Kern Save Women's Sports Act SB 904 Senate Bill 904 Sharon Queen Shauna Lawlis Some Assembly Required Some Assembly Required: The Not-So-Secret Life of a Transgender Teen Southeastern Oklahoma State University STAR State Superintendent Ryan Walters Support Our Troops Support Our Troops Rally Support Our Troops Rally 2017 Supreme Court Taylor Burns TCF The Danish Girl Title VII Tobias Picker TOHR TOHR Pyramid Project TOHR Torch Torch trans athletes trans programming trans programs Transgender Transgender Day of Visibility Transgender History Month Transgender Rights Tulsa City Council Tulsa Community Foundation Tulsa Community Foundation (TCF) Tulsa Family News Tulsa Flyer Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights (TOHR) Tulsa Opera Tulsa Reaches Out Tulsa Reaches Out Project Tulsa Star Tulsa World Twisted Arts UCLA UCLA School of Law Understanding Transgender Healthcare and Wellness Understanding Transgender Healthcare and Wellness webinar https://history.okeq.org/files/original/539df6b8c85d2ca16ce2bbfc98126a27.jpg 59b19070d50cca9d4d0c75feecf8c91d Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Download of a Facebook post Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Trans Day of Visibility fashion show Subject The topic of the resource Trans Day of Visibility fashion show Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 31, 2026 Type The nature or genre of the resource Facebook post fashion show Gender magazine Trans Day of Visibility Twisted Arts https://history.okeq.org/files/original/e3460cc7e54aedae609ae72412f9437b.eml 4d77d82639b6774d165a71b24307e700 Email A resource containing textual messages and binary attachments sent electronically from one person to another or one person to many people. Email Body The main body of the email, including all replied and forwarded text and headers Dear Friends, Last week, Senate Bill 904 was signed into law in Oklahoma. The legislation restricts the use of state funds, facilities, and resources for gender-affirming healthcare, creating new barriers for transgender Oklahomans seeking medically necessary care and increasing uncertainty for healthcare providers across the state. While SB 904 does not appear to constitute a total statewide ban on gender-affirming care for adults, its impact will still be significant. By restricting how publicly funded healthcare systems and providers can offer care, the law is already disrupting access to services and creating confusion for patients and families. Last week, we shared Oklahomans for Equality’s formal statement opposing the bill and reaffirming our commitment to continuing care through our clinic. Today, I want to share more about what we are already seeing on the ground, and ask for your help. The impact of SB 904 is already being felt. Since the bill’s signing, publicly funded healthcare providers and institutions across Oklahoma have begun referring patients to our clinic as they navigate new restrictions on care. At the same time, we are hearing from transgender Oklahomans and their families who are frightened, uncertain, and trying to understand what access to healthcare will look like moving forward. We anticipate a significant increase in demand for appointments, care coordination, patient navigation, and financial assistance in the weeks and months ahead. As a small community clinic, we operate with a strong commitment to keeping care accessible and affordable, which means increased demand places immediate strain on both staff capacity and financial assistance resources. For many people, the barriers created by this legislation are not abstract. Delayed care, increased travel, higher out-of-pocket costs, and fear of losing access altogether place enormous strain on individuals and families who are simply trying to access medically necessary healthcare. Too often, those most impacted are people with the fewest financial resources and the fewest alternatives for care. Our commitment remains unchanged: our clinic is open, and we will continue doing everything we can to ensure transgender Oklahomans have access to affirming, compassionate care. But we cannot do this alone. Thanks to a generous matching challenge from Dennis Neill and John Southard, every dollar donated, up to $10,000, will be matched dollar-for-dollar, doubling the impact of your gift. Because demand for care is already increasing, early support will directly determine how many patients we are able to assist in the coming months. Your gift today will help ensure that cost is not the reason someone loses access to care. Donations will support appointments, labs, and other critical healthcare and clinic operational needs as demand continues to rise. Oklahoma already ranks 47th in the nation for health outcomes. At a time when our state faces healthcare workforce shortages and growing mental health needs, restricting access to evidence-based care only deepens the crisis for vulnerable Oklahomans. Healthcare decisions should be made by patients, families, and qualified medical providers, not politicians. Every person deserves dignity, safety, and access to medically appropriate healthcare. Your support sends a powerful message to transgender Oklahomans that they are not alone and that they are valued, supported, and will continue to be cared for by this community. With gratitude, Hailey Briggs Executive Director Oklahomans for Equality Subject Line The content of the subject line of the email Letter From the Executive Director: Update on SB 904 & Request for Immediate Support From The name and email address of the person sending the email Oklahomans for Equality To The name(s) and email address(es) of the person to whom the email was sent email list Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Letter from Hailey Briggs about SB 904 Subject The topic of the resource Oklahoma Senate Bill 904, which bans gender-affirming care from providers or facilities that receive any form of state money Description An account of the resource An email from the Oklahomans for Equality executive director to constituents Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Oklahomans for Equality Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource May 20, 2026 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Hailey Briggs Type The nature or genre of the resource Email gender-affirming care Hailey Briggs health care health clinic SB 904 Senate Bill 904 Transgender https://history.okeq.org/files/original/320d437d44e058a1c10df596b65f542b.mp4 afd12d3e5bc94309d8993ee1619c5595 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/92880036a522ecbbf758f71b648fb7a0.pdf dd57b2cf9caee06bb59f00c1812ddc05 PDF Text Text 1 Oklahomans for Equality Oral History Interview with Michael James Interview Conducted by Toby Jenkins Date: July 21, 2026 Transcribed and Edited By: Mary Bishop-Baldwin using Reduct.Video AI July 24, 2026 Restrictions: Interviewee requested: N/A Oklahomans for Equality History Project 621 E. 4th Street Tulsa, OK. 74120 918.743.4297 historyproject@okeq.org �2 About Michael James: Summary In this in-depth interview, Michael James, known as MJ in the community, shares his journey living with HIV for nearly 30 years, his activism, and his extensive involvement in LGBTQ+ advocacy, community service, and HIV awareness initiatives in Tulsa. Discover inspiring stories, community efforts, and the importance of resilience and support. Keywords HIV, LGBTQ+, community activism, Tulsa, HIV awareness, advocacy, Rainbow Library, Pride, HIV retreats, community service Key Topics MJ's personal HIV journey and living with HIV for nearly 30 years Community activism and LGBTQ+ advocacy in Tulsa The significance of HIV retreats and community support programs Historical overview of LGBTQ+ bars and social spaces in Tulsa MJ's involvement with American Airlines' diversity and inclusion efforts The story behind the AIDS quilts and their importance in remembrance MJ's role in organizing Pride events and community fundraising The impact of healthcare policies on people living with HIV The importance of resilience, support, and community in health and advocacy Future directions for HIV awareness and LGBTQ+ support in Tulsa Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction 00:56 MJ's Volunteer Work and Community Involvement 03:51 The HIV Wellness Retreat and Its Impact 07:00 MJ's Personal HIV Diagnosis and Early Days 10:06 Living with HIV Since 1992 and Medical Care �3 14:59 MJ's Childhood and Coming Out Journey 19:58 MJ's Military Service and Awareness of Sexual Orientation 24:51 Early Social Life and LGBTQ+ Social Spaces in Tulsa 30:01 Career Transition and Work at American Airlines 34:45 Involvement in LGBTQ+ Employee Groups and Pride 39:55 Community Fundraising and Support Activities 44:59 The AIDS Quilts and Their Significance 55:01 MJ's Advocacy and Community Leadership 59:59 Future of HIV Awareness and Community Support 01:05:00 MJ's Message to Future Generations Michael James Oral History Interview July 21, 2026 Toby Jenkins: Good afternoon. Today we are in the Joe and Nancy McDonald Rainbow Library. It is July 21st, 2026. The thermometer outside is a hundred degrees, and it's a hot interview coming up for you. We look forward to it. Today, our special guest is: Michael James: Michael James. Toby Jenkins: Michael James, better known in the community as MJ, and he gives a whole new definition to the worker bee, and we are so honored to have him here. We are in the library, and this is the Oklahomans for Equality History Project interview in the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center, home and headquarters of Oklahomans for Equality, which sits on Pride Street in downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma. Today our interview panelists are Dennis Neill, founder of Oklahomans for Equality; Mary Bishop-Baldwin, plaintiff in the Oklahoma marriage equality lawsuit. We are so glad to have you today, Michael James. Are you comfortable with us calling you MJ, since that's how we all know you, or would you rather use your Christian name? Michael James: MJ is fine. Toby Jenkins: Okay, we want to jump right in. Got a page full of yeah, yeah, amazing to have you. First of all, I want us to start with talk – kind of tell us some of your volunteer work that you do right now, today, here at the Equality Center, so people know kind of what you do, and do you still serve on the Advisory Board? Michael James: Unfortunately, no, in regard to the Advisory Board, because they did away with those at the – here just recently, so didn't have enough to go. So as far as volunteering, now I am, I manage the bar down in the Linn Riggs Theater. I'm here for every event. Within those events, I make sure that they have a crafted cocktail specific to their event to make their event just that much bigger, better, you know, for their, their �4 clientele. So I do that. I also do some volunteer work, and I'm part of a group called Positively Grateful, which is an HIV resource group, and we meet here every Friday at 6 o'clock and have a community meal. That is really open to the public. If you don't know anything about HIV, STDs, we have learning situations. Other than that, it's a place to just come and meet new folks that have the same issues that you do. You know. So. Toby Jenkins: So are there – do families attend these meetings sometimes who recently there maybe their loved one has got an HIV diagnosis, or I mean, is this … ? Michael James: So, my mother comes to every meeting that she possibly can. She hasn't here lately to her health issues. But, yes, we have partners; we have family; we have grandchildren; we have nieces, you know, and we also get that at our yearly retreat. That's the whole point of Positively Grateful is we fundraise for a yearly retreat every year at the end of August, and that just goes so, so that anybody who is newly diagnosed, has been living with HIV, or their caregivers, can come spend four days for a nominal registration fee of $50, meals included, all types of – you're out Choteau, Oklahoma, 45 minutes away, but yeah, it's so that they can know what to expect. Toby Jenkins: And how many years have y’all had this? Michael James: Positively Grateful is going on three years. Prior to that there was a group called Positively Grateful – no, Grateful -- anyway. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Grateful Day. Michael James: Grateful Day. Thank you, sorry. And I was with them about five years, and we started in a camp up in northeast Oklahoma – really great camp. But I've been supportive of those events. I have been a camper. I've been a volunteer. Anything I can do to help that go smoothly for not only the organization but the campers, I'm gonna, … Toby Jenkins: Maybe I – I may be merging some things. Was this originally, this HIV wellness retreat, wasn't it started by Hope Church, Michael James: Community of Hope. Toby Jenkins: Community of Hope by Rev. Bob Lawrence? Michael James: That is a true statement, yes. Toby Jenkins: So the retreat's been around at least 20 years probably. Michael James: Yes, and then it went away, and then we picked it up. The original founders of Grateful Day were Sabrina K. Marshall, Shana, I can't remember Shanna's last name. Toby Jenkins: Justice Flowers, aka Sabrina. Michael James: Yes, Shana, and then they brought, Toby Jenkins: Cozad �5 Michael James: Yes, Cozad, and then Chuck, they brought Chuck Courtney in, and that's how I really got involved with them was through Chuck. Chuck and I went to school together, so. Toby Jenkins: Now, is Penny Fruth still involved with this? Michael James: Unfortunately, Penny has left the group. Toby Jenkins: Okay, but she was involved. Michael James: She was involved, yes. Very good ally. Toby Jenkins: Now, tell us how critically important this retreat is to a portion of the community that – it's kind of like the highlight of their year. Michael James: So it is. I mean, being a person diagnosed with HIV back in '92, you feel like you're on an island and, you know, yes, you have all these people that you see day to day and stuff, but you really can't truly just be yourself and, you know, and what this does is it gives them four days to come be themselves and not worry about any stigma. Just the people themselves, seeing them come in, you know, just kind of cornered up, you know, and then by the end of the retreat, it's just this big, beautiful … person, you know, that you didn't even expect to see. Things like that just really... Toby Jenkins: And where is the retreat taking place now? Michael James: Retreat now is at Camp Christian. Toby Jenkins: It's been there for now how many years? Michael James: Oh, uh … Toby Jenkins: Ten something? Michael James: Yes, yeah. I would say eight to 10. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. Michael James: So, very wonderful group. They shut down the camp altogether so that we can have that weekend to be ourselves. Toby Jenkins: We're gonna ask you to do something with either slip your watch in your pocket or something, so we don't... Yeah, sorry about that. Okay, and now that way you can feel free to use your hands. I love this retreat. It meant the world to me. For several years, I had to help secure the grants for this retreat, and they would gather here and transport up there. Now, I know back in the day, usually they had 30, 35 people. Is it still? Michael James: Yes, yes. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Michael James: They did have one of the lodges burned down. Yes, one of the newest lodges burned down, like, right after they referred. We had just left. It was their first year �6 to have it open, like, two months, and, yeah, it was scary. But wonderful group of people out there. We went to their grand opening, their groundbreaking ceremony for the new lodge. Very welcoming, you know, all different types of faiths. Toby Jenkins: So, the name of the camp is? Michael James: Camp Christian. Toby Jenkins: Now, is it a faith-based nonprofit, or is it tied to a particular denomination? Michael James: So, I can't remember. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: It's a camp of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Oklahoma. Toby Jenkins: So, it's the Disciples of Christ? Michael James: Yes, yes, yes, exactly, exactly. Toby Jenkins: So, it's an inclusive denominational... I guess the Disciples of Christ now are inclusive and affirming. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: I wouldn't say every congregation is, no. Toby Jenkins: But it's an official policy of the denomination, right? So, I'm glad that they work closely with you. Anything else about that retreat? Michael James: Oh, you know, I just, if you know somebody who is, please support them. Show them all the love you can. If you can go learn about the, you know, HIV or STDs, take the time to do it. Toby Jenkins: Okay, so you said you were diagnosed in 1992. Was that here in Tulsa? Michael James: Yes. Toby Jenkins: And can you tell us a little bit about that experience? And now that's, so that means you've been living with HIV for almost 30 years, 34 years? Michael James: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Michael James: It was really scary. I had just gotten with my partner and something happened that made me go to the doctor. And I think I had just gotten insurance. Not always been the life of luxury for me, you know, just like everybody else. Ups and downs. You know, I was a hairdresser after I came out of the Army. Went to school to be a hairdresser, did that for a while. Met up with my partner, and in '92 found out that I was HIV positive and got kicked to the curb. Yeah. My mother was there and very supportive, went to my appointments with me. If it wasn't for our lab tech, Dorinda, you know, telling me, “Hey, you know, it's kind of like drugs. You don't worry. You don't let them work you. You work this disease. You tell it what's gonna happen.” And that's �7 pretty much how I've lived my life, you know. I'm not gonna let it get me down. I'm gonna do what I can. Toby Jenkins: Now in 1992, this would have been still during the ATZ years. Michael James: Compavir, yeah. Toby Jenkins: I mean, so was that what, were you started on it immediately? Michael James: Yes, yes, yeah. I wasn't diagnosed with HIV, with, AIDS. I was diagnosed HIV positive. I was just above. Toby Jenkins: Okay. So you had no symptoms? Michael James: Correct. So, yeah. Toby Jenkins: But you started on the medication? Michael James: Yes. Toby Jenkins: Because there was a period where if, unless you had symptoms, they didn't start you on the medication, but they started. Michael James: They gave me the option, yeah. Toby Jenkins: Okay, and that would have been in 1992. Had you had friends who had had HIV, and had you had friends who had died of AIDS? Michael James: At that time, I didn't know. I was fairly new to the coming out at that point in time. Yeah, so a small-town boy. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, so you weren't necessarily aware of … . You hadn't had a friend die of AIDS. Michael James: Correct. Toby Jenkins: I'm so glad that your mother was there with you and supported you. Let's talk a little bit about your childhood. Where were you born? Michael James: Cushing, Oklahoma. Toby Jenkins: Whoa, didn't know that. I had no idea. Michael James: My mother had to drive. We lived in Sapulpa. On Mother's Day, they drove to Cushing, Oklahoma, to deliver me. Toby Jenkins: Why did they go to Cushing? Michael James: That's where her doctor was. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Michael James: This was back in 1966, Toby. �8 Toby Jenkins: The good ol’ days. Michael James: Rural Oklahoma. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. Well, also would have had big oil influence. Rural hospitals in those days in Oklahoma were heavily funded by the petroleum industry, so that's a side fact. So, you were born in Cushing, but your family lived in Sapulpa. Michael James: I grew up in the Creek County area. My grandmother lived in Sapulpa. I had a Sapulpa address, a Kiefer telephone number, and I went to school in Mounds. Toby Jenkins: Oh, Mounds. Okay. Michael James: Not Liberty! Liberty is on the east side. We got nuts. Toby Jenkins: So, in school, were you athletic or in the music program or band? Michael James: I was actually in the choir. So, went to state several times. I was like a first soprano up until sophomore year, so, and then, yeah, I started smoking. Toby Jenkins: Okay, so you were used music in high school. When you graduated, what year would that have been? Michael James: 1984. Toby Jenkins: From Mounds High School? Michael James: From Mounds High School. Toby Jenkins: And how many were in your graduating class? Michael James: A little over 30. Toby Jenkins: Oh, really? Michael James: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: Okay, I thought Mounds was bigger than that. Michael James: No. Toby Jenkins: Well, I guess not. Michael James: Not back then. Yeah, yeah, it's grown tremendously somehow. Toby Jenkins: So, you graduate from Mounds High School in 19Michael James: 84. Toby Jenkins: Okay, now, just curious. How do you, what's your sexual orientation? How do you identify? Michael James: I'm gay. Toby Jenkins: Okay, and pronouns? �9 Michael James: He, him. Toby Jenkins: Okay, and so you're in Mounds, Oklahoma, and you're in the choir, which is like gay preschool, but especially if you went to state college. When did you begin to be aware of your orientation and that you might be gay? Michael James: You know, we all experimented when we were going through puberty and stuff, but it really wasn't until after high school. Like I said earlier, I went into the -- I graduated high school weighing 275 pounds and then went straight into the military from there. So that's really pretty much all I know out of high school. So. Toby Jenkins: So in the military, you got away from Mounds, Oklahoma, and you're now in the military. And where did you go to basic and all? Michael James: I went to basic at Fort Dix, New Jersey, in the middle of wintertime. Toby Jenkins: Oh, mercy. Michael James: Literally bivouac and having to do push-ups where the snow went in and touched my cheek. Yeah, buried my nose. Toby Jenkins: And so then you were exposed to a bigger world. Were you aware that you were gay? I mean, had you? Michael James: I thought about it, I mean, but I didn't take action on it, because I really enjoyed being in the military, and I didn't want to screw it up. Dennis Neill: So when you were in high school, did you do the typical dating girls thing? Michael James: Yeah, yeah. Had a girl. Took her to the … Dennis Neill: You had no inclination then that there was anything different? Michael James: No. Yeah, you know. You guys know me now. I love everybody, OK? And that's just how I've always been. So yeah. Toby Jenkins: OK. So when did you acknowledge your orientation, and when did you develop an intimate relationship with someone? Michael James: Well, it was around 1989, ‘90-ish, OK? Maybe a little earlier, because I graduated high school, went directly from high school into the military. And then about eight months later, I was discharged. Toby Jenkins: Came back to Tulsa. Michael James: Yep. 25-inch waist, shaved head, baby blues, youth on my side, yes. And that's kind of when I kind of let go and said, “Here I am, world.” You know, so. Toby Jenkins: So did you go to gay bars, or did you? Michael James: At one point, I got into a really popular bar when I was underage on a $5 well night. But other than that, I didn't really. �10 Toby Jenkins: Do you remember what the bar was? Michael James: Yes, Zippers. Michael James: Zippers? OK. Yeah. So tell us about the clubs you went to in those days. Michael James: Let's see. Zippers was the only one I went to when I was underage. Everything else, I waited until after the fact. We would go hang out. There was an afterhours club called Exile. I don't know if you remember that off of 11th Street, I think it was. So we'd always go do their hang out. Toby Jenkins: So during those days, you were going to, that's primarily how you were connecting with gay people, was at the clubs. OK. Do you remember some of the bars that were popular in those days? Michael James: Yes. Renegades, Levi's 501, Concessions, Bamboo, Yellow Brick Road. Toby Jenkins: End Up? Michael James: That was before the End Up, wasn't it? Toby Jenkins: OK. Michael James: Yeah. Trying to think, there was one, I think. Toby Jenkins: Did you ever go to Tim's Playroom? Michael James: No, no. My ex performed there, though. Toby Jenkins: Taj Mahal? Michael James: No. Toby Jenkins: Caruso's? Michael James: No. Dennis Neill: A lot of those were probably closed, weren't they? Michael James: Yeah. Dennis Neill: So tell us a little more about Levi's. Michael James: Strokes. Toby Jenkins: Strokes. Dennis Neill: Oh, yeah. Tell us a little bit more about Levi's 501. Where was it located? Michael James: Levi's 501, if you are standing in front of Renegades, looking at the front door, OK, this street over here, I think is like 17th or something like that. If you went straight down that road, like two blocks on the right hand side on the corner, there was �11 a big industrial looking barn type thing. And that was where Levi's 501 was. At that point in time, I was dating Marsha LaRue. Toby Jenkins: Which is? Michael James: Marsha LaRue was a local female entertainer. Michael James: And she was I believe a Miss Gay Something at one point. Toby Jenkins: Okay, so that was the drag name. Michael James: Yes. Toby Jenkins: What was the … Michael James: Mark Lanier. Toby Jenkins: Okay. So you were dating a title holder. Michael James: Yes, yes. I was the trophy husband, I guess. Toby Jenkins: And you went to the clubs, and that's how you connected. Michael James: Yeah. Tiki Nook. My dad actually went to that bar. Dennis Neill: And where was it located? Michael James: Tiki Nook was uh, corner of right there off of, so Camelot Hotel, Highway 44, there was a big hotel complex there, and it was upstairs. And then there was an after-hours bar downstairs called Buddies that Mike Treat ran, if I'm not mistaken, so. Toby Jenkins: Good lord, Dennis. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: These were gay bars? Michael James: Yes. Toby Jenkins: Where was Strokes? Michael James: Strokes, wasn't it where Concessions was? Dennis Neill: Yes. Same place. Michael James: Yeah. Dennis Neill: And then also, MJ, about that time close to Levi's, now that you explain it, was a bar called Ma Bell's. You remember that one? It may have closed before then, but Ma Bell's was at 15th and Boulder. Michael James: I don't remember Ma Bell's. I do remember SRO, which was at 15th and Boulder. And it's now that Mexican place, and then it became … Oh, what was it? Dennis Neill: No, SRO was at 18th and Boulder. �12 Michael James: Okay. So no. I'm sorry. Dennis Neill: Okay. No. Toby Jenkins: What does SRO stand for? Michael James: Standing room only. Toby Jenkins: Okay, none of these bars have I heard of – in all the interviews and research. Dennis Neill: And I’d forgotten about Ma Bell’s. Michael James: Delasandro’s, you know Delasandro’s? Yeah, you know that connecting little area with the patio there. That used to be SRO. Toby Jenkins: Oh, yeah. Dennis Neill: And that became Area 18. Michael James: That's right. That's, that's what I was. Yes, Area. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. Michael James: Hazmat symbol. Toby Jenkins: All right. So it was the gay bars that you were connecting with? Okay, so during this time were you out to your family? Michael James: No. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Michael James: Everybody probably knew, 'cause … Toby Jenkins: You mentioned earlier that you were a hairdresser by profession. Michael James: Correct. So after I came back, you know, like I said, everybody's got bad times in their life. Got into a little drug issue and, yeah, got down on my luck and just had to rebuild myself back up. So my mother was married to a vet who was very closed-minded and did not want me around. So unfortunately during that time I didn't see a lot of my family. Toby Jenkins: He didn't want you around because of the drugs or … Michael James: Because of my sexuality. Toby Jenkins: So you had told your mother you were gay? Michael James: Yes. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Do you remember that experience? �13 Michael James: I don't. I really don't remember coming out to my mother. The only really bad thing I was, you know letting her know that I was HIV positive, so, and that was really hard. Toby Jenkins: So this would have been in the late '80s, early '90s. And you, were you working at a hair salon, a commercial hair salon, or were you were your own? Michael James: I worked in a place called A Cut Above the Others owned by Woody – I cannot remember Woody's last name – but I started there as his apprentice and built my own clientele up, and then I got with my partner that kicked me to the curb when I found out I was HIV positive because he didn't like me working late nights. Of course, at that time we had also adopted a 5-year-old autistic child. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Didn’t know this. Michael James: Yes, so we were foster parents of this young man. Toby Jenkins: And how long did you have him? Michael James: We were together about five years, and two of that we had … Toby Jenkins: Had the child. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: And did the child stay with him or? Michael James: Yes, yeah, yeah. Dennis Neill: So, MJ, you adopted together as a couple? Michael James: It was, not legally. Yes, it was a foster program type thing. And really I don't know all the specifics of it because he worked in that area, so he knew all the bells and whistles, the ins and outs. Dennis Neill: So he was a state employee? Michael James: Not a state employee, okay, because at that point in time they were getting away from state employees. They were doing – Hissom (Memorial Center) was no longer; they were putting everybody out of Hissom, so there were a lot of developmentally disabled individuals moving into the community, and this person worked with those. Dennis Neill: I see. Toby Jenkins: So, you were a hairdresser, and we come up to the point where in 1992 you were diagnosed. When did you change careers, and, because I know you've been with American Airlines, how many years now? Michael James: I've been with American Airlines for 25. Toby Jenkins: 25 years, okay. So did you go from hairdressing to American Airlines, or was there... �14 Michael James: No, there was a period of time in there, okay, I mean, screw it, here I go, you know, party boy. So that's, yeah, and then I was about, what was it, I guess 35ish. Actually, it was before that. I was, oh, I was working in a bar downtown called The Underground. And what was the name of the bar that was next to that? Dennis Neill: The Dance Park. Michael James: Yes, Regina was there. Dennis Neill: I can't remember the name of it. It's very simple. Michael James: Yeah, yeah, I was working at The Underground, and this... Toby Jenkins: Well, you've already listed 12 bars that I have been to. Were there any straight bars in Tulsa in those days? Michael James: So actually there, so at the place where The End Up is, okay, you asked about End Up, there was actually, it was an Irish-named bar, I think it was called The Shamrock, and Marsha LaRue, Amanda Love, Trudy Tyler, oh, gosh, Bobby, Bobby, I cannot think of his name, Randy, yeah, they went there and did a show. Toby Jenkins: At the Shamrock? Michael James: At the Shamrock, yes, straight, I mean, and that was, yeah, but it was a great time. It was really neat. Dennis Neill: Just real briefly, back when you were diagnosed and you were living in Tulsa, how did you find, one, the medical care here to support you with your diagnosis and any of the support groups that you got associated with? Michael James: So my doctor referred me to Tulsa Cares, and I went through the program, and I actually, like a former director here, I utilized the system to get me through until I could take and provide for myself, you know, so. Dennis Neill: And the doctor, is it somebody you can name? Michael James: So Int to say his name was Dr. Lewis. Dennis Neill: So it wasn't one of the doctors that was? Michael James: No, it was nobody, not at that time, so, yeah. Dennis Neill: And you continued to get medical care through Dr. Lewis? Michael James: So I used the system up until I got my job with American. So as I was saying, I was working at Underground, and a gentleman would come in every day, a really nice gentleman, and we became friends. Well, he just happened to own a local computer software company, and his secretary was getting ready to retire, so he offered me that position. So during my downtime as a receptionist, I taught myself how to use the computer. I mean, I had keystrokes, the whole nine yards. I did that for seven years, and then I was hired March, went to work at American, January the 2nd, 2001, and then got hired on March 19th full-time. �15 Toby Jenkins: And American Airlines has been through multiple transitions, and you never lost your job? Michael James: This close. This close to 9/11. So back then it was a management/staff clerk type position, and now it's a union position, so I got time. Toby Jenkins: And so with American Airlines came insurance and a lot of resources for your personal life. Michael James: Yep. So at that point in time, you know, I had to jump ship. Toby Jenkins: Jump ship? Michael James: As far as I was making too much money for the Ryan White program at Tulsa Cares, so I had my own insurance and stuff, went to my own private care. I went to Dr. Haas. She was my doctor for forever. Toby Jenkins: Let's just take this opportunity for our viewers to understand this. Health care, medical insurance was a defining moment because prior to the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare as we call that, which decided you could not refuse treatment or you could not deny somebody based on a pre-existing condition. So that was a life-saving … So all of a sudden we had this surge of people who were able to return to the work force, because in those days, Michael, you went to work for American Airlines, you got insurance, your pre-existing illness didn't disqualify you. But did you always be afraid that if you ever lost your job with American Airlines that you would lose your health insurance? Because your health insurance didn't travel with you. Michael James: Correct. Toby Jenkins: And so I just want our viewers to understand historically it was the difference in people who were able to work and have health insurance, but sometimes you would stick with the job you hated because you had health insurance and you didn't want to lose your health insurance, which people still do for other reasons, too. Okay, so you went to work at American Airlines. I notice that there's so many things that you've been involved in. I want to … You went to work for American Airlines. Were you out at work? Michael James: I was myself, okay? No matter what, I'm kind of a back, shied off guy, but I'm gonna be myself no matter what. And I mean everybody knew. Whenever I came out and joined the pride group and started our pride group out there, I didn't have to do any. I didn't have to come out, you know. Toby Jenkins: What year would that have been? Michael James: About ten years ago? Toby Jenkins: I thought longer than that. Michael James: No, it's been about … Mary Bishop-Baldwin: And this is an employee resource group? �16 Michael James: Employee business resource, the Pride Employee Business Resource group that started in 1984, I believe it was, right when the AIDS epidemic was in full swing and they wanted American Airlines to burn the blankets and pillows and everything after pride flights, yes. Yes, ma'am. And we formed a pride – or actually it was called GLEAAM back then. Yes, Gay Lesbian Employees of American Airlines, so. Toby Jenkins: Because of the discrimination and the stigma? Michael James: Correct. If you're gay, you got AIDS. Toby Jenkins: So did you have to revive the chapter here in Tulsa or did you have to start it? I mean, had they ever had … Michael James: We had to revive it. So, as you said, American’s been through a lot of stuff. At one point they really brought DEI to the forefront, and it really wasn't DEI back then, though. This was before all that came around. They had a chapter, but it was a downlow chapter. They would meet off base. You know, they wouldn’t let – you had to be part of the group to know where to meet. They were that afraid. Toby Jenkins: So you began to organize in 2016? Michael James: Yep, something like that. Then we started coming out. Toby Jenkins: Did you have the support of American Airlines corporate? Michael James: Yes. Toby Jenkins: And HR personnel? Michael James: We had the entire Tulsa base behind us. Corporate down south was behind us. Of course, we had many other chapters that we had to share with. I was fortunate for the time that I was there to be able to be a proud $10,000 sponsorship for several years for our Pride. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, so you said they had to share for other chapters. You mean other chapters at other cities in American Airlines? Michael James: Correct. Toby Jenkins: Or other affinity groups at the …? Michael James: No, it's that there are different pride chapters everywhere throughout the world.. Toby Jenkins: So you would network with all them and get ideas? Michael James: Yes, yeah. We would go down and have meetings and stuff. Toby Jenkins: Now, when you, did a group of you decide, did you find out American Airlines had this out there and you said, I want to do this? Or did y'all begin to meet and say, hey, we need to organize here? �17 Michael James: So I found out there was a group, and then I really wanted to become more involved. And this was the time that they started pushing the employee business resource groups at that time. So I'm like, sure, I'll step up. So took it from there, got it ... Toby Jenkins: So in the regular workforce, so the people you worked with, the other employees who were not gay, were they aware this group had formed? And was there any, I mean, if you went, if people went to it, was there people, I just assume that meant they automatically knew they were sexual? Because I know you had several straight allies involved. Michael James: Yes, yes. And there's that stigma once again. Yes, if you're part of a queer club, a gay club, whatever, straight alliance, gay alliance club, you're automatically gay no matter what. That was the biggest issue that I had. Unfortunately, a lot of the guys and the ladies and all those in between would come up and say, I appreciate you wearing that shirt to work. I couldn't do it. But you were online and married and everything else is about, so. Toby Jenkins: Ah. Interesting. So y'all had T-shirts that you could wear in the workplace that were American Airlines. Michael James: American branded, uh-huh. Toby Jenkins: Okay. So that let other people know. Yes. When you were wearing that Tshirt, did people come up? Hey, I'm gay, and did they not know about the group and they started coming into the group? Michael James: Nope, nope. It was, you know, I never, yes, I got people who wanted to come join the group. Nobody who actually came out, okay? Believe it or not, I, … there were more straight allies joined during my time than anything, so, yeah. And I really, they're still there for me. Toby Jenkins: So previously, American Airlines had been one of our big corporate sponsors of Tulsa Pride back in the early 2000s, and then when the economic downturn happened, we lost State Farm, Cox Cable, and American Airlines, and then when you got involved, you brought them back to the table in a big way. Michael James: So wasn't this before that? Toby Jenkins: Yeah, it would have been, this would have been the early 2000s, and then, you know, 2007 when we had the big, 2007, 2008, all corporate support went away. I mean, that's why we moved Pride from the park to here. We couldn't afford to have it over there anymore. But you brought them back to the table. Yes. Yeah. So, and how did you, where did y'all jump in? I mean, you not only brought them back as a Pride sponsor. Michael James: I jumped in, I mean, you know, I knew the Equality Center. I had been to Prides before. I had never been on the other side of that. Toby Jenkins: The organizing. �18 Michael James: You're correct, so our group, hey, let's get some community, you know, going here. So we started volunteering through the Equality Center when we did drag bingos to raise funds for our Pride Festival in January through May, you know? Toby Jenkins: Every year, we would, about 10 years ago, we started doing Pride bingos here at the center. Dale Hogan helped start that, and companies would buy tables or individuals, and. Michael James: And then we would come out, we would take and serve them. We would be behind the bar. We would have people coming out to their tables, making sure that they were full and happy and having a great time, and then. Toby Jenkins: And y'all would wear your American Airlines shirt. Michael James: Yes, sir, yep, yep. Toby Jenkins: So that people knew we had our volunteers running drinks. It was, … Michael James: We even, I think we brought some bar cart out here at one time and pushed it around. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, some bar cart like you see on the flights. Michael James: Flight attendant carts. We then started working, okay, well, if we can do this, you know, I know that there are other corporations out there that have these groups, you know? So we all started working together, and that's when we started getting Blue Cross Blue Shield to come in and all that stuff. Toby Jenkins: PSO. Michael James: Right, yep, yep, yep. Toby Jenkins: One Gas. Michael James: Uh huh. Yep, we had volunteers out at the wazoo, and it was fabulous. It was fabulous. Bingos would sell out. Toby Jenkins: Both rooms. Michael James: Yes. Yes. Yes. Toby Jenkins: And it helped us pay for Pride. Michael James: Mm-hmm. Toby Jenkins: Yes. So you created that, you recruited them and got them involved, and they were just wonderful volunteers. And then I know that you also, while you were at American Airlines, y’all began to do some diversity training, and you would invite us to come and do presentations. Michael James: Yes. If I recall, you'd come out and do how to be an ally. They did some youth training – abuse and stuff. There was also one, yes. �19 Toby Jenkins: I know we did a presentation on marriage equality. Didn't you serve on that panel? Mary Bishop-Baldwin: I don't recall. Toby Jenkins: But I know you had us come out and talk about why marriage mattered. Michael James: Yeah. Equality time. Yeah. Very well-attended events. Toby Jenkins: So you were helping with Pride Bingo, but then you also, I know American Airlines kind of stepped up with the Grateful Day Foundation and helped with their big fundraisers, too. Michael James: Correct. Yes. We would just do different portions of proceeds. I mean, yeah. Toby Jenkins: Yes? Michael James: Yes. I don't know where else to go with that. Toby Jenkins: Another big spaghetti dinner every year, y'all. Michael James: So, no. We didn't really do, we did more for the Equality Center. Wasn't really more for Grateful Day. That was more of a personal thing on the Grateful Day side of it. So now, did my people take in, also come and volunteer at those events? Yes. I had my people from American and other organizations that did that as well. But yes, we go out and we volunteer for the awards dinner. Toby Jenkins: So tell us a little bit about how you got inspired to come up with the beverage carts, which were branded. We had an OkEq branded one, and then we had a, whatever the Pride logo was. Michael James: Yes, we did. There were two or three years that we were able to, our leadership donated flight attendant carts, and they would take and refurbish them. I would use the theme of that year's Pride to put – one year we did it on one side, I think. One side was Pride; one side was OKEQ. And then the next year, when we did the Tulsa to Oklahoma City theme, that wrapped all the way around the flight attendant cart. They would take exotic woods and carve them out to specific bottles, like crown bottles, glassware, ice bin, the whole lot, lights, remote control. We donated. Toby Jenkins: And we would sell these for $10,000. Michael James: Yes, at Gala. Toby Jenkins: People would go nuts. And I remember one year, he was with the chamber, and his partner was a flight attendant, and they bought that. His flight attendant partner asked, “Why in the world are you buying that?” He said, “Well, I thought it was neat,” and he said, “I have to deal with one of those all the time.” Gary Meadows and his partner bought one one year. �20 Michael James: And then, yeah, somebody bought one, and then we, they matched it but didn't want the cart or something like that. And then somebody donated on top of that. I mean, that year it was like $30,000. It was amazing. I mean, I was very proud. Toby Jenkins: And then American Airlines would sponsor a Gala table. Michael James: Yes, yes. Toby Jenkins: And they would sponsor Pride. Michael James: We'd sponsor bingos. Very, very great. Toby Jenkins: Because they would walk in, if I remember this correctly, you would keep a list of the people that volunteered, and then we would verify that, and then they, American Airlines, would match those volunteers? Or was that ConocoPhillips that I'm thinking of? Michael James: No, that’s ConocoPhillips. Dennis Neill: So, MJ, what is your thought about why that has changed so much? Where we lost all of these affinity groups, this corporate support. Toby Jenkins: Diversity. I mean, do you still have this at American Airlines? Michael James: So, it's tough to say. I don't know if we overdid things, you know? I mean, at the end of my tenure with the EBRG, our DEI group made me want to DIE. I mean, it was just shove it, you know. I get that, okay? But I don't, it's tough to say. Unfortunately, we had COVID that came around. Nobody wanted to be around anybody, and then you became that recluse, and how hard is it to get out of that, you know? So, and it's just a lot, it takes a lot to build back, and we're building back. Dennis Neill: You are building back? Michael James: We are building back. Dennis Neill: So the corporation isn't blocking you from building back? Michael James: No, they still have, they're called team member resource groups now. We no longer have a chapter in Tulsa, so we can't get sponsorship. However, I still have my management sponsor that we have a core group of people that still, to this day, we drive shuttles for Pride. They'll be the back of the thing so that people can walk behind and dance and just be themselves for Pride. So they, our local is still very involved, so. Toby Jenkins: So you're still in Pride, the Pride parade and all that? Michael James: Not since I've been bartending. Toby Jenkins: Oh, okay, all right. I was thinking I’d seen American Airlines in the parade. Michael James: So yes, we, yes, like I said, they bring up the rear of the parade. We've got music on the back. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: So you're saying American is still in the parade? �21 Michael James: American is still, yes. Me, I'm behind the bar. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, and when he says bar, he means he's running the bar for Pride. Michael James: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: For thousands of people pouring and overseeing all the volunteers with that. Okay, I want to talk about, a little bit about you were involved with Friend for a Friend and tell kind of what that is and what you. Michael James: So when I got diagnosed, resources are there. One of the resources was an organization called A Friend for a Friend, and it was started by Alice Bates. And if I'm not mistaken, it was in her son's memory. Excuse me, he was diagnosed with HIV, and he had a dog, and “Who's gonna care for that poor dog?” she thought. So she started A Friend for a Friend. I used their resources, and then I actually started volunteering for the organization. Toby Jenkins: And so Friend for a Friend provided pet food, veterinarian care, helped out financially if there was some kind of issues associated with someone living with HIV/AIDS and they didn't have the resources to care for their pets. Michael James: Correct. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Dennis Neill: In that, did you have a physical location, and did you have a paid staff person that ran the program, or is this all volunteers? Michael James: I was, to my knowledge, it was just all volunteers. And when I was delivering, we went and picked the dog food up from Alice's house. And then. Toby Jenkins: And you say as a client, you had benefited from it. Michael James: Yes. Toby Jenkins: Okay. So you believed in it. Michael James: Yes. And then when Alice passed away, my best friend, Jason Eddingfield, was her right-hand person, and he took it over, and then we carried on. I was still volunteering with that. And unfortunately we lost all the other support when we lost Alice. So it had to go. Dennis Neill: So what year do you think that was? Michael James: It's only been, what, five years ago? Toby Jenkins: Less than five years. Dennis Neill: Because they had her service at Unity, right? Toby Jenkins: Yeah. Dennis Neill: And that's kind of when things stopped. �22 Michael James: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: Well, nobody could tell Alice no. She would ask, but. So did you help with the big fundraisers they'd have here at the center where Al Triggs would cook carrot cake cupcakes? Michael James: Yes, yes, that's correct, yes. We would have our like fall meals, and Al would make his infamous carrot cupcakes and, oh my gosh. But yes, we would volunteer with that for Grateful Day Foundation for that. Toby Jenkins: So, yeah. Toby Jenkins: So just to talk about that, you said that you had been a client at one time. Toby Jenkins: So you had a pet, and obviously you were struggling financially and on disability taking care of you or however the rhyme went. Were there times that you were afraid you were going to have to give up your pet because …? Michael James: That wouldn't happen. Toby Jenkins: It wasn’t going to happen. Michael James: No, that wasn't going to happen. No. No. Ride or die. Toby Jenkins: But it meant a lot to you to know that this resource was available for you. Michael James: It did. It meant a lot that it was there for me, able to keep my security while I didn’t have my mother. Dennis Neill: So were you dealing with symptoms at this period of time? Michael James: No, no. I was dealing with drug and mental issues at that time. Dennis Neill: But you were on disability? Michael James: No. Dennis Neill: Okay. Michael James: No, I was on the Ryan White program. Dennis Neill: Okay. Sorry. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: And what did that provide for you? Michael James: That provided me, let's see here, doctors. Okay, that's where I – OSU. I got in on at OSU. Food, whatever. Toby Jenkins: Did they help with housing? Michael James: Housing, yes, and they helped with housing in the days. Toby Jenkins: Bus passes? �23 Dennis Neill: And this was all through the Tulsa Cares case worker? Michael James: Yes. Dennis Neill: And that's when they were on Admiral, I assume. Right? Michael James: Yes, correct. Toby Jenkins: Did you ever do anything with the Lambda Bowling League, which is the LGBT bowling league? Michael James: So, yes. Every year they would have a yearly bowling tournament. And when Grateful Day was around and Chuck Courtney, we would always go out to their big fundraiser and sell raffle tickets and donate our time there. So, got to meet lots of people, spread, you know, lots of people would ask about our group and stuff. And we'd sit down and tell them, and they’d … . Toby Jenkins: And in those days, the bowling league was huge. Michael James: Huge. I mean, it's at Sheridan Lanes. And, I mean, yeah, it's a good thing I didn't track my steps back then because... Toby Jenkins: Yeah, I'd say probably as many as 25 lanes. And there would be five to six team people in each. Michael James: Yep, and then you've got their people with them and so, yeah. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Once a week? Toby Jenkins: Yeah, every week. Michael James: Well, no, this was for their yearly bowling tournament, but yes, they would. Toby Jenkins: Oh, yeah, they had a huge tournament. Oh, yeah, it'd be bigger than that, yeah. And so, that helped them fund Grateful Day Foundation. So, tell us a little about Chuck Courtney. You've mentioned him. Michael James: Chuck Courtney. Toby Jenkins: And how did you meet him? Michael James: Oh, Chuck Courtney and I met somewhere out between Mounds and Kiefer. Back in the '80s, the late '80s, after I came back from the military. Went our ways, and then somehow or another we ended up connecting somehow. And it was like, bam, bada bing, bada boom. I got involved with Grateful Day at that point in time, like I said. Wonderful man, very knowledgeable. Toby Jenkins: You were roommates for a while. Michael James: Yes, yep, and we lived back-to-back. So, great guy. Like I said, he was part of one of the founders of Grateful Day. Just so much about him, you know. �24 Toby Jenkins: Yeah, he's just like you – a workhorse. He just was a doer. Michael James: You ask him a question. If he didn't know he was going to dig until he found out, yeah. Needed the shirt off your back, yeah, he'd give it to you. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: And you were both from Mounds. Michael James: He was from Kiefer. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Oh, he was from Kiefer. Michael James: Yep, and I was from Mounds. But remember, I had a Kiefer telephone number. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Yes, I understand that. Toby Jenkins: There's a legend here that people probably think is a legend, but we're going to tell the true story on the legend. So you and Chuck, and you all were involved, I guess, with Grateful Day Foundation, which eventually became Positively Grateful. But during that time, if I remember correctly, there was a group of people that wanted to do a documentary on HIV/AIDS in Tulsa, and I can’t remember the name of the people that were wanting to do that. And so they connected with Chuck, and Chuck was helping with that. Michael James: Chuck spearheaded that with them. Toby Jenkins: And so they wanted to do a story on Alice's Our House. She headed Our House, which was an HIV/AIDS resource house for people in the community and Friend for a Friend and all the work she had done. And during that time, there began to be questions about the AIDS quilts. And you all got involved in that. Michael James: Yes, yes. Chuck came to me one day and said, “Hey, break out the mystery machine. We're going to solve a mystery.” So, and he told me that the Center had received a call saying that they were missing quilts. We had help find them. Toby Jenkins: AIDS quilts. Michael James: AIDS quilts. Toby Jenkins: So when the Equality Center opened at this location at 621 East 4th Street, we were one of the few places in the United States that it was our permanent home that we were going to own. And it was very common for the NAMES project, which was based in Atlanta, they would allow LGBT community centers, resource centers, they would allow them to permanently display the quilts. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Certain panels. Toby Jenkins: Certain panels. Michael James: Right, and so there was an organization from there that was local. Toby Jenkins: Right. And we had a NAMES Project committee here, and so they reached out, and those individuals, who are no longer with us, got the quilts. All I know �25 is that from the day when we opened the building, we always had the AIDS quilts hanging on the wall, the original AIDS quilts that were Oklahoma specific, and we had at least four. So we had two, and we would take the others out for World AIDS Day. OSU sometimes would request them, sometimes Tulsa Care, All Souls would come and, you know. But we only had four that I knew of. Then when they decided to move the NAMES Project to the National AIDS Museum in San Francisco, they said all the AIDS quilts need to return to the NAMES project. And we went into this legal battle with them, because we kept saying we have the paperwork saying we could have these here on permanent display. And we kept telling – they said, you've got 10 quilts, and we said, we've got four. And so pick it up there. Michael James: So Chuck, being the guy he is, he picked it up and ran with it. I worked during the day, so I wasn't able to do a lot of stuff, but he would do a lot of the background work. We got to go into the Catholic archives and look in it. It was very, oh my gosh. Just the search. Go, go, go. Toby Jenkins: St. Joseph’s House. Michael James: Look, look, find this … . We'd go look. Finally, we found them at the 11th hour before, I can't remember what they said. They were going to charge us some outrageous amount. Toby Jenkins: They were going to sue us. Michael James: Yeah. And American Airlines helped pay cargo for those. Toby Jenkins: And you found them where? Michael James: We found them in... Toby Jenkins: Now, you checked multiple locations, Tulsa Cares, St. Jerome's. Michael James: St. Jerome's, OSU, because they had even borrowed it to hang from their, several locations. And we found them in the shed. And I can't remember – we said it. Toby Jenkins: Ray Chance. Michael James: Ray Chance's house. Still in a box. Very minimal damage, thank goodness. So we were able to bring them back here. Toby Jenkins: Weren't they buried under newspapers, like gay magazines? Michael James: Yeah, they were in a big. Yeah, they were buried, but there was a little bit of... Mary Bishop-Baldwin: How many were in the box? Michael James: Six. Toby Jenkins: Six. There were six. We had four, and they had six. Dennis Neill: What led you to Ray's location? �26 Michael James: So Chuck got a lead. Seriously. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: This should be a movie. Michael James: No, like I said, the mystery machine, you know? We were like, yeah, Scooby and Freddy or something. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: That’s amazing. Michael James: Brought them back here. And then at that point in time, we were able to do some high-resolution stuff, get the quilts back to the National Archives, and now we have local copies here. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Facsimiles, essentially. Full size. How did you do that? Michael James: With the talents of … Toby Jenkins: Jeremy Stevens and his partner Alan Mueggenberg, if I'm saying that right. Alan's company was able to create those, and so they paid for that, and then we were able to send them away. And we had a big ceremony that they would be, we told people, we had them on display and told people to come down and see them. Michael James: We had them right there in the Bruce Goff, World AIDS Day, if I'm not mistaken. Toby Jenkins: All of them, not just the... We've probably got video of that somewhere. And so I quit fighting with the National Names Project, and y'all paid to have them boxed up and mailed back. They're there, available. I mean, you can pull it up on their website. Yes. And we now have what are high-resolution facsimiles. Most people don't even realize they're not the original quilts. And we just recently found about one. We know we have four, but we found a third one. So I want to thank you and Chuck for doing that. That was a pretty historical event. Michael James: It was very interesting, learned a lot, and made me even want to get into it more so. Toby Jenkins: Now I know you were also involved in T.U.L.S.A., which is the Tulsa Uniform and Leather Seekers Association. Michael James: Correct. I was in that organization for a couple of years, started out as a pledge. How I got started was my friend, Richard Ziese, a former Mr. Tulsa Leather, and it was more of a fun thing to me. I didn't really fit the lifestyle, but the people were cool, you know, and it's just another form of drag, right? You put on your leathers and, you know, and they're an organization that go out and do fundraisers, okay, not only for themselves, but they'll join with other organizations and help fundraise for them as well. So they ended up disbanding as well, I think. Toby Jenkins: You used to meet here. Michael James: Yes, met here. �27 Toby Jenkins: You would have a room full of 30 or 40 people. Now, did you help with Richard when they did the leather archives? Michael James: Yes, that was when I was being initiated, and we were actually ribboncutting, and yeah, it was a very wonderful thing. Toby Jenkins: Thank you. So you know the details on the display case that has... Michael James: I know several of the people in there. Toby Jenkins: Okay, very good. That's helpful information. Because eventually it will move down here, right? And this area is going to be redone, and the library's ... Is it all right to say that? Dennis Neill: Uh huh. Toby Jenkins: It's going to be moved out there … Michael James: Oh, right on. Toby Jenkins: … to make it more accessible, and you know, we've got kind of a dead space. Used to, we had a computer lounge there, and we don't necessarily do that. And so the leather archives will eventually be here. Michael James: Right on. Okay, that's cool. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Along with other archives. Michael James: And then during that time... Toby Jenkins: So you and Richard were the ones that put all that together? Michael James: Yes, along with some of the other... Toby Jenkins: David Howell down in Florida, I think. Didn't he help some? Michael James: I think so. And then somewhere down the road, with Grateful Day, I got involved, not as a member, but working with the Imperial Court of all Oklahoma, as well. And we would, as the organization Grateful Day, we would go volunteer with them, help them raise funds. We were a... What am I looking for? At the end, they take in, they pay their, we're like a benefactor. We benefit the organization, so. And then, ever since then, I go every year for their coronation and volunteer as their bartender for their hospitality. Toby Jenkins: Tell our viewers a little bit what the Imperial Court is. Michael James: So, Imperial Court of All Oklahoma is, it's a court system all throughout the states. And they go around raising funds for different, they're another fundraising organization. That's really what I know about them. Toby Jenkins: So, they're modeled after the European court system. There's kings and queens and dukes and duchesses and princes and princesses and ... �28 Michael James: Tiaras. Toby Jenkins: We have Carolyn Wiley's interview. She was an empress. Michael James: She was, yes, like the main mama entry. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, yeah. So, we had her as part of our archives. Okay, I forgot about that. Anything else, Michael, that you, since you've just sit on your hands and you've not done anything for the last 15, anything else that you were involved in that we, well, you served on for years here on the advisory board. Michael James: Yes, I served for a couple years here on the advisory board. I volunteered, I've been a volunteer here for 10 years. I’ve managed the bar in the theater for three now. Yeah. Toby Jenkins: And it's kind of seen a resurgence. Will you be helping this weekend with the Fringe Fest? Michael James: I'll be right here with two signature cocktails. Dennis Neill: So, MJ, of all of your activities that you participated in through these many years, what is kind of the high point that you can think of that has been so meaningful to you personally? Michael James: My high point is seeing our community benefit from some of the things that I can do. Whether it be getting them dog food, whether it be hanging with them for a weekend at a retreat, whether it be behind the bar making a cocktail. I just love our community. And that’s, yeah. Toby Jenkins: I know recently I've been able to attend a new thing that's happening in the Lynn Riggs Theater with Jason and Bill Nelson called Broadway Clubhouse, and that's capacity crowds. And are you enjoying, I know you just seem to be flying with the energy that you feed off of. Michael James: Oh my gosh. That's been an idea of Mr. Neill's for quite some time to bring something very similar to Marie's Crisis here to Tulsa. We started it. Unfortunately, that didn't work out, but we have two wonderful people who are in charge of it now, and I'll tell you what. I mean, being a former choir boy and just hearing all that, coming right, not at me, but just up, it's just the energy in the house and the energy that I feel when I'm here. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Show tunes. Michael James: And it's not just show tunes. I mean, come on, we do some Queen in there, too, right? Toby Jenkins: So we get together and we sing Broadway show tunes, and of course it'll be music that may have been featured in by musical artists or Disney shows. I mean, when you say Broadway shows, you don't realize how comprehensive and expansive that is. Michael James: Yeah, and jukebox jingles or something ... �29 Toby Jenkins: But I will tell you that the warmth and the friendliness and the excitement that you bring to those events, I know you're happiest when it's a packed house and people are enjoying themselves. Dennis Neill: MJ, you mentioned that when you were diagnosed and you lost that partner, because he couldn't deal, I guess, right, with your diagnosis. How about since then? Have you had some long-term relationships that have been meaningful to you? Michael James: Yes, Dale Hogan is really about the only other long-term relationship. It's been about seven years. We were together about seven years. We still remain friends. Sure wish I could get him to come back as Rainbow Granny, dang it. But... Toby Jenkins: So it can be a strain, a medical diagnosis for people, and some people just can't deal with it. They're not equipped. But that doesn't help somebody who's dealing with it. Yeah, I mean, and hopefully in the wellness retreats, y’all address some of that, probably. Michael James: Yes, yes. Toby Jenkins: Have some discussion groups. Toby Jenkins: Yes, we have. Michael James: For a, go ahead, I'm sorry. Michael James: We have panelists. We have a doctor that comes out. We have a... Toby Jenkins: Mental health provider. Michael James: Mental health. We have pharmacists, a pharmacologist that comes out. We even have, uh, wanding sessions. So like spirit, just wellness. You take wellness and go however. Toby Jenkins: You have chaplains sometimes. Michael James: Yeah, George is always there providing services. There's a labyrinth that takes you through a journey, you know. So very, yeah. Dennis Neill: So with the people you've been close to that have been dealing with HIV, and with all the new medications, have you still seen some people that we lose to the actual disease, or is it usually other complications? Michael James: It's always other complications, unfortunately. Dennis Neill: Do they have a relationship to their compromised systems? Michael James: Yeah, I could see some of them, but you know, not everybody's that. It's not that, you know, granted, okay, pneumonia. Okay, you can have pneumonia, but is it truly caused because of your HIV? You know, I mean, yeah. Dennis Neill: So we've seen a real sea change there, right, in the treatment and the longevity? �30 Michael James: Yeah, yes, yes. You know, I mean, I didn't think I would be here now, you know. I've, in the beginning, I had several medication changes, but I've only had probably two medication changes within the last 30 years, 25. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Do you attribute your longevity, the fact that you didn't die in those earlier days, to the timing of when you were diagnosed, because these drugs had come about then, or to what do you attribute this? Michael James: Have you met me? My hard head, okay? My stubbornness, my will to live, okay? I am not ready to die, okay? As y'all know, I got too much stuff to do. I almost said a bad word. Toby Jenkins: And obviously, you're not willing to sit on the sidelines. … World AIDS Day, have you ever participated in any of the World AIDS Day events? Michael James: World AIDS Day, we did with Grateful Day, and that we stuck, talked earlier, we took the quilts, we hung them from the ceiling in the Bruce Goff, and they kind of wrapped around, and people could walk through and see that. That's really about the only one that I, you know. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, well, we're trying to revive World AIDS Day. Michael James: Let's do it. Dennis Neill: It's going to be on Tuesday, this time, and we have been challenged by others, including you, to make sure that we have a real recognition of World AIDS Day, and so we hope that Mary and you and some others can kind of help lead this effort of pulling back the community that we used to have such a robust remembrance of World AIDS Day. Michael James: I'd be honored to, so. Toby Jenkins: Anything else from our interview panel? So usually we ask our guests, give you just a second to think about it, is there any message you want to give anybody who comes after you, maybe younger people or just people who review your interview, do you have a final message for them? Michael James: Man, amongst all the BS, don't lose yourself, and don't give in. Don't give in. Be that person to help make the world a better place. Toby Jenkins: It has been our distinct pleasure to interview Michael James, known in the community as MJ. Our interview panelists have been Dennis Neill, founder of Oklahomans for Equality; Mary Bishop Baldwin, the Marriage Equality Plaintiff, and Toby Jenkins. It is July 21st, 2026, and I believe it's now 101 degrees outside, but it's been a warm, warm experience. Thank you so much, Michael. Michael James: Thank you all. Look for me down in the bar. Remember, if the light's on, bring it on. If the light's off, back off. Dennis Neill: Ha, ha. Thank you, MJ. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Thank you, Michael. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Series] Oral Histories Project > Interviews Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br />Box 7, Folder 7 - Dr. Leisa Meyer Program<br />Box 7, Folder 8 - Interviewees Materials, Original Series 2003-2007<br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Michael James Interview Subject The topic of the resource Michael James Oral History Project Interview from July 21, 2026 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Michael James, Toby Jenkins, Mary Bishop-Baldwin Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource July 21, 2026; July 24, 2026 Description An account of the resource In this in-depth interview, Michael James, known as MJ in the community, shares his journey living with HIV for nearly 30 years, his activism, and his extensive involvement in LGBTQ+ advocacy, community service, and HIV awareness initiatives in Tulsa. Discover inspiring stories, community efforts, and the importance of resilience and support. Interview conducted by Toby Jenkins and transcribed by Mary Bishop-Baldwin. 2026 activism advocacy AIDS Quilt AIDS/HIV AIDS/HIV longterm survivors American Airlines coming out community fundraising Gay Bars healthcare HIV HIV Education HIV/AIDs interview Mary Bishop-Baldwin Michael James NAMES Project NAMES Project quilt Nancy and Joe McDonald Rainbow Library Nancy McDonald Rainbow Library OKEQ Oral History Project oral history oral history interview Oral History Project oral history transcript Pride Rainbow Library Toby Jenkins transcript Tulsa Gay Bars video volunteers https://history.okeq.org/files/original/006a3e291caac95522a9871ee0e6dd1d.mp4 dda5c960f90098b8d9d20d55850689d7 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/887e542a2807ed6edc3a72e264cd9f06.pdf e9d6b264782cd101eac600767ffbce33 PDF Text Text 1 Oklahomans for Equality Oral History Interview with Jose Vega Interview Conducted by Toby Jenkins Date: May 22, 2026 Transcribed and Edited By: Dennis Neill using Reduct.Video AI, May 25, 2026 Restrictions: Interviewee requested: N/A Oklahomans for Equality History Project 621 E. 4th Street Tulsa, OK. 74120 918.743.4297 historyproject@okeq.org �2 About Jose Vega: Summary Join us for an inspiring interview with José Emanuel Vega, a dedicated LGBTQ+ advocate from Tulsa, Oklahoma, now making a difference in California. He shares his powerful story of overcoming trauma, fighting for LGBTQ+ rights, serving as Program Director and Deputy Director at Oklahomans for Equality, and building community through advocacy, education, and leadership. Keywords LGBTQ+ advocacy, Tulsa, California, trauma, resilience, community building, public health, HIV prevention, leadership, immigration Key Topics José Vega's childhood and family background Experiences with child abuse and conversion therapy Journey of coming out and self-acceptance Advocacy for LGBTQ+ rights and immigrant communities Impact of hate crimes and community response Leadership in Oklahoma and California Innovative programs like rainbow crosswalks and chapters International perspectives on LGBTQ+ issues and human rights Future goals for community empowerment and education �3 Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 02:21 Childhood and Family Dynamics 12:23 Experiences with Conversion Therapy 21:36 Struggles with Identity and Survival 30:06 Education and Career Path 34:39 Professional Growth and Advocacy 38:00 Finding Stability and Community 44:52 Confronting Discrimination in Safe Spaces 50:52 Advocacy and Leadership in the LGBTQ Community 57:56 Reconnecting with Family and Personal Growth 01:05:05 Navigating Hate Crimes and Advocacy for Protection 01:09:10 Handling Hate Crimes and Community Safety 01:11:58 Advocacy and Activism in the LGBTQ Community 01:15:07 Building Support Networks and Chapters 01:20:07 International Perspectives on LGBTQ Rights 01:25:07 Navigating Divisive Issues in the LGBTQ Community 01:29:54 Career Growth and Community Impact 01:34:54 Education and Public Health Initiatives 01:40:03 Inspiring Future Generations of Activists Jose Vega Oral History Interview May 22, 2026 Toby Jenkins: Good afternoon, and welcome to Oklahomans for Equality. We're at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma. It is May 22nd, 2026. It's a beautiful Friday afternoon. We're here in the Joe and Nancy McDonald Rainbow Library with a history project interview. And today, our special guest, we all call him Jose, but will you give us your name the way you say it? Jose Vega: Jose Emanuel Vega. Toby Jenkins: Very good. And Jose, where do you live presently? Jose Vega: Yeah, I currently live in Sacramento, California. �4 Toby Jenkins: Where were you born and where are you from? Jose Vega: Yeah, I'm originally from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Family is from Mexico, Michoacan, Uruapan. And I was born and raised in Oklahoma. And I moved away from Oklahoma in October 2020. But it'll always be home for me. Toby Jenkins: And so you moved, where were you working when you left Tulsa? Jose Vega: I was at Oklahomans for Equality, and then I had the opportunity to move to Sacramento, California for the Sacramento LGBT Community Center there and work as Director of Health Services and Programs. And it was in the middle of COVID. Toby Jenkins: Right, and you were the Deputy Director here at the Oklahomans for Equality. Jose Vega: Yes. Toby Jenkins: All right, so we're gonna have what we call, you've heard of bisexual interviews. This is a bicoastal interview. We're gonna have a West Coast gay who comes back to the heartland, and we're gonna hear Jose's story. So today, our interviewing panel is Dennis Neill, the founder of Oklahomans for Equality, Mary Bishop-Baldwin, who works here with the archives, and also was the plaintiff in the marriage equality lawsuit that secured marriage for Oklahoma and a big section of the country, and I'm Toby Jenkins. Toby Jenkins: Jose, let's start with, like we do all of our interview people, I’d like to hear a little bit about, your childhood and kind of your experience. You were here in Oklahoma. Tell us a little bit about your family. Jose Vega: Yeah, I was born in 1992 and raised here, and my family, I'm a son of immigrants. My family is from Mexico. All my family lives here. They're either here in Tulsa or in Mexico. You know, the only two. I am the oldest of my dad's children. He remarried six times, so he's on his sixth marriage now, but growing up was only me and him with one woman and her kids, and then a revolving door and so forth, but it's always been me and him. Childhood hasn't been… I had a rough childhood with growing up with him in that aspect. I Can share, you know, my coming out story. So with that, now what I know now with my dad, I know that he gave what he could give to the best of his ability, but during that time, that's not how I saw it or how it was lived with. So, you know, my story, I came out at 15. I was a sophomore in high school, but before that, I had a lot of child abuse. My dad would come home and I knew that, now what I know is that he had bipolarism and he would beat me, lock me up in my room. Sometimes I'd have to skip meals. I would show up to school with bruises and they'd ask, what happened here? And I would always lie to protect my dad and my family. But it wasn'tToby Jenkins: Because you had your extended family. You had aunts and uncles and cousins and then you still were pretty connected to your grandmother, and she was still in Mexico at the time, right? Jose Vega: Yeah, yeah. As all migrant families, we're all very interconnected. �5 Toby Jenkins: No connection to your biological mother. Jose Vega: Not during that time. Not before the age of 18. Toby Jenkins: Ok. You were experiencing, he would be very violent and abusive, and you felt that you had to protect him and your family. Why did you feel like you needed to protect them rather than protect yourself? Just curious about that. Jose Vega: Well, what happens a lot in child abuse is that there will be a parent or family member say, don't say anything because it will break the family apart, and you don't want to risk that. And so that's what happened to me. I had aunts, stepmoms tell me, don't tell anybody, tell them that you fell down, that you hurt yourself, and that's kind of what I did, ended up doing. But it wasn't until I was 14 when I've had enough. And there was suicide in my history, and at that age of 14 is when I was going through physical abuse, mental abuse, and verbal abuse, and it was every day waking up that you're a piece of shit, you're a son of a bitch, worthless, and so you tell that to a child so much that they end up believing it. And at 14, that's what I believed. My own father doesn't love me or thinks of me this way, then I must be this. And so that's the first attempt. And I felt very depressed, and I remember his words telling me, you didn't take enough [pills]. And from that moment on, that's kind of where I took empowerment of who I was and kind of protect myself. But even before that, I asked myself, they knew I was gay for some reason, because growing up too, I would have my hand, little cap [limp] like this, you know, fallen, or my hand on my hip, and I would get beaten for having these mannerisms. And so at the age of 14 when that happened, it was the last beating I had. And I was about to turn 15, and he came in and he striked me, and I stood up for myself and I said, you know what? I can't do this anymore. You're not going to do this to me. And you talk about you'd rather have a thief as a son, or a rapist as a son, or somebody else as a son, or a drug dealer as a son, but not a homosexual or a faggot. And I said, I'm a faggot. And crying, I said that. And so he was like, get your stuff and get out. There will never be a faggot in my household. And at 15, I grabbed everything I could and I started packing my bags. And then he comes into the room and says, what are you doing? I was like, I'm packing my bags like you asked me to. He's like, but I paid for all of this. And so I left with the clothes on my back and a blanket. And I managed. I couch surfed through high school. I slept in the ditch next to Webster High School. That's kind of where I graduated. Slept in a ditch at a park. Couch surfed with friends; with anybody I could. I would shower in the gym at school. But I was a happy child because I wasn't getting beaten. I wasn't getting the abuse. Toby Jenkins: You didn't go to the school counselor and tell her you were homeless? You didn't go to foster agencies? Jose Vega: No, and the reason why is because at school, I became the student who would put newcomers together. And I loved it. I loved helping a new student come in, learn the system. I've always had that passion of helping folks. But I ended up �6 partnering and helping foster kids, foster youth. And they would share some of the stories that they were dealing with. And I knew that if I was caught, I would have to end up in a foster shelter or some system where I would be limited and not have the opportunities that I'm having now, that I was having at that time. I worked at Reasor’s [grocery store] as a sacker at the age of 15 after school. Once I turned 16, it became full-time. But I was very appreciative because it gave me money to pay for a cell phone, so I would go to the admissions office at school and I said, here's my new parent's number. And anytime they needed a parent's signature, I forged the signature. Anytime they would call, I would pretend to be the translator. Usually a lot of Latinos, youth, are the translators. We, a lot of youth, end up translating medical paperwork or school paperwork or even legal paperwork for their parents because they don't understand the language. I would translate, yeah, the teacher's saying this, and I would just make my own decisions. And I never got caught, and I was really good at school. I do appreciate Mary Waters, who was my high school counselor. She did look out for me. She helped me with getting enrolled with scholarships, the universities, and prepared me. And then I had a lesbian gym teacher. She would see that me walking down very early, like at six in the morning, walking down to the school. And she knew because she would leave the gym door open and the shower room open where we just knew… We looked at each other, and we just knew what was going on. But nobody ever said anything or reported anything. Also food-wise, too, they would help me cover for food and meals. But also during that time, as a 15, 16-year-old, working at Reasor’s and putting myself through high school, sex work was a thing too, that sometimes I needed to do to find a ride. To help me with wash clothes, laundry. And so that's part of my history too, where I needed to do certain things to get by. Toby Jenkins: I know at one point you talked about there was a period where your family decided they were going to send you to Mexico. One, so you could learn to speak Spanish the proper way, but also interact with your family, but to get you more connected to the church. So can you share with us a little bit about what that was like going through what we call today conversion therapy. I think it was called reparative therapy at that time. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience? Jose Vega: So yeah, my aunt said that she could heal me, and there could be a cure for this. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: At what age? Jose Vega: I was 14 to 15. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Had you already left home? Jose Vega: No, this was before leaving home. So there was already this talk among my family that I was gay. There was already this talk, and they're like, well, we keep hearing his dad keep saying faggots this, faggot that, and that he doesn't want this at home and so forth. So maybe we can heal Joselito, that's what we call me. And so during the abuse too, it was a great getaway. �7 I can get away from my father from the abuse. So yeah. So I did a year in Mexico, my freshman year of high school, and they sent me to conversion therapy at a church, and it started with droplets and people just praying on me at church and telling me, you're going to go to hell if you don't change and so forth. But these droplets were black oil, black oil that I would take after every meal as soon as I woke up. If I had impure thoughts, I'd ingest, and every time I would throw up after a meal because it was covered with this coat… it was just black ooze. And the priest would say that that is the demon coming out of you. And I lost a lot of weight. And then I would remember to read from this little yellow book two hours before school. So I had to wake up early and be on my knees, not trying to lean, bend. So just be on your hard knees for two hours, praying from this little yellow book before and after. So early in the morning and then before bed. And then also a VHS tape of a priest that died and that God took him through hell and showed him how every sin is paid. So if you're a thief, this is how your sin is paid in hell. If you're a rapist or if you're a, whatever it may be every sin, but the one that I, that is embedded in my mind and I can see it so clearly because I would watch it for a whole year- was how homosexuality is paid and the priest can... I can describe it. It's not graphic, well, a little bit, but the priest would say: a hot metal rod is inserted through the anus, all through the body and out the throat at multiple times. And that's how homosexuality was paid in hell. And so having to watch this every day, read from this little yellow book and then be coated with this black oil stuff that I would ingest, I lost a lot of weight. I didn't even recognize myself. I was failing at school and then I was like: you know, I can't do this. I did it for nine months and I said, no, I can't do this anymore. And so that's kind of where I went back home and that's kind of when I stood up for myself with my dad. I said: you know what, I'd rather be gay, be where, I'd rather be homeless, gay and alone than having to endure this, this therapy or cure aspect, or even any abuse in the household. So I left. Toby Jenkins: Now, during this time when you're basically you don't have a permanent physical address, were you still in contact with your father and your aunts and uncles and cousins? Jose Vega: No, so all my family turned their back on me because I didn't finish the conversion therapy and I I wanted to… I just left home. So everybody turned their back on me. 15, 16 and um, nobody, nobody would reach out to me or talk to me. They knew where I was. They sometimes would see me at the grocery store or even see me walking on the street to my next destination. Toby Jenkins: Yet you made some friends, and those two are still your lifelong friends. Jose Vega: Yes, that's Martha and Jordan. Martha I met in high school and she knew so she was very, very sweet to me. She would bring me food from her home, just sometimes help cover lunch. And that's where it hurts, because when I needed somebody the most, she was there. She's my best friend. She's like the sister I never had. �8 Toby Jenkins: With all of that, dropped out of school and became a drug addict, right? Jose Vega: No. Toby Jenkins: What did you do? What happened? You graduated, didn’t you? Jose Vega: I graduated, I did so. So sophomore year of high school, I finished the year, but it became hard. It was hard because I was like I either need to quit school and get to work or find another alternative because I can't do this. I couldn't do this another two years of figuring it out how I was gonna get by. And I talked to Mary Waters, my high school counselor, and I said: I, I either need my GED, or graduate early or something. And so we looked at my grades and everything. She's like, Jose, you have great grades, you could jump a year. You could pay for summer school and do your junior year for that summer and then go straight into senior [year]. And I did. I did English Three that summer and came back to school as a senior. So I skipped my junior year. This is Pebbles [dog], she is three years old. Mary Waters helped me jump from sophomore straight to senior and I graduated early. And so I said, okay, I can do this one more year. So with that, one year is where I was able to move up along workwise at Reasor’s and stay in school and graduate early and then win scholarships. And then I moved to TCC, Tulsa Community College, where I went straight after high school. Mary Bishop – Baldwin: And did you get an apartment or were you still couch-surfing? Jose Vega: I was still couch-surfing during high school, but I was able to find something more stable and solid. I jumped a little bit ahead. There was a time where my aunt during that time- also senior high school- where she said: oh, Jose, God has touched my soul. And because she saw me as I was walking down the street, she says: God has touched my soul and I'm here to help you. I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll take any help. She's like: you can live with me, you can sleep on my couch, you'll have a shelter. And it was family. So I was like, oh, probably they finally came around. But she was charging me $300 to sleep on the couch, charging me for everything, well, you're using water, you're using gas and I have to pick you up and do this and do that. It started to get expensive and as a high school senior, I'm like I can't afford this. I went back to couch surfing with friends, where I didn't have to pay anything, and start saving up. And then finally I was able to save up to get A little $1,000 car and that's kind of where I started my TCC journey. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: And did you sleep in your car? Jose Vega: There was a time where I slept in my car here and there, but I'm very grateful because Martha and my best friend, but I had met a boyfriend by that time, so I wasn't doing any more sex work or trying to get by. I met a boyfriend and we both moved in together and we had dual income and we were able to grow together. I was 18. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Can we go back to when you were in Mexico in the conversion therapy program? What were your personal beliefs about yourself at that time? Did you believe that homosexuality was a sin, or did you feel like you knew within yourself that what you were and what you were doing was not wrong? �9 Jose Vega: No, I did grow up thinking that it was something wrong. My family- but my family's very- was very religious, very Catholic, and I was so embedded in the Catholic Church that they did tell us homosexuality was a sin. And so very young, I knew that I was different. I knew that why do I find other boys attractive, or why do I find this taller man attractive? And I didn't say anything, but I would hear. And then also a lot of media. There was this talk show, a Mexican Latina talk show, where there was a transgender woman or somebody who dressed up as a woman, man who dressed up as a woman who came to the talk show, kind of like it was a Mexican Oprah. Her name was Christina, so she was a Mexican Oprah. And in this talk show I was probably 10 or 11 and I saw that they were talking about homosexuality and gay men and they felt so to me. I was like that's how I feel I can see that. But I knew it was a…this mentality of it's a sin, it's a sin, you're gonna go to hell was very embedded in me and that's why I hated myself. I was like no, I gotta do this conversion therapy. Probably my dad will love me this time. Probably my family will accept me. I don't want to be different. So my mentality there was that. But it wasn't till I was 14 and going on 15, where I tried to commit suicide and my dad said you didn't take enough. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Didn't take enough what? Jose Vega: Didn’t take enough medication. It was pills. I tried to do it by oral, but medication went to the hospital, my stomach got pumped, I had to eat charcoal. But when he said you didn't take enough, it was like a click, just something like a click where I'm like: why am I living for you or for anybody? No, I'm doing me, and very young, and I know that a lot like this is why I advocate for teen suicide and all and care, because- because not a lot of teens make it, or- and I don't know where I got the strength from- I know the strength that's saying I'm not doing it for anybody, but for myself, and that's why I broke the chains. I said I'm gay and you don't like it, and I hit the street afterwards. Toby Jenkins: So the sense of survival your own. You took it within yourself to take to survive. But you had to do it at a much younger age, while you're still a child yourself. You couldn't depend on any of them. So you decided, I'm gonna survive on my own terms, without any of your help. And if I lose you, I'll lose you. Jose Vega: And that's what happened. Toby Jenkins: And so you graduate from high school early, go to college. Were you in the Achieves program? Jose Vega: I was, Tulsa Achieves. Toby Jenkins: Now I remember a portion of your story, there was a time when y'all visited City Hall, you were a part of a youth program, which you later implemented under Mayor Bynum. Was that during high school or college? Jose Vega: That was during high school. My senior year of high school is when I applied for the Tulsa Mayor Youth Council. And it was run by Nick Doctor and his wife, what's her name again? Forgot her name, I'm blanking [Mana Tahaie]. �10 Nick Doctor started the program, the Tulsa Mayor's Youth Council, where youth would get involved with local politics and advocate. And I shared, like, we need to do something for our youth, our LGBTQ youth, and advocate more rights. And that's kind of where my passion for advocacy started growing. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: What year would this have been? Jose Vega: This was 2009 to 2010. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, but your earlier experience, you had been exposed to something like this that you… Jose Vega: Yeah, there is a footage, there's several interviews. In 2006, I was interviewed because there was a Latino career fair and advocacy to bring Latino men up into the workforce. So, every aspect of it, I enjoyed. Every aspect of supporting those who needed their voice heard, even in high school. Dennis Neill: Jose, during this period of time, until you finished TCC, did you experience bullying because of either your sexual orientation or your racial identity? Jose Vega: Oh, yes. Dennis Neill: And could you probe that a little bit more? And how the adults and other peers reacted to that? Did they help you address some of those issues? And can you explain a little bit about that background? Jose Vega: Yes, before I was 14, there was bullying for my skin tone. I would be called beaner, wetback, go back to where you're from, and also kind of, like, fruity. And I remember some parents at school saying, it looks like that kid has sugar in his tank. And I didn't understand it until now, but there was. But it wasn't until age 14, in high school, 15, 16, I would still get bullied, but you couldn't do anything to me. I didn't care about it. And I didn't care about it because if I didn't care about it from my own family or father, you're just a kid in school. And so that empowered me. Dennis Neill: How did the school authorities react to these issues that you were facing? Jose Vega: My high school counselor for the bullying aspect, she stood up for me. And I just…my friends, too. I remember Martha, my best friend, she stood up to these bullies, too. She was a tough cookie, and she would sometimes fight my fights. So she was, and what I love about it, because she was one year behind me. We would have graduated the same year, but because I jumped a year, her senior year, and I was in college, she started the first GSA at Webster High School. And she said, I did it for you because there's more gays…there's more LGBT people at school. And now that you're gone, I don't know who to protect. And that's who I'm gonna protect. She became…she was an ally. But during that time of high school to college, yeah, there was bullying, there was wordage, but you couldn't do anything to me because if I didn't accept it from my dad, I couldn't do anything. Dennis Neill: Did you experience that, even at TCC �11 Jose Vega: ? No, not at TCC. I didn't experience that at TCC. But workwise or anywhere else, growing up, yeah, you couldn't say anything to me. I didn't care for it. Toby Jenkins: But you did hear it. Jose Vega: I did hear it, but it didn't, it was likeToby Jenkins: So you're at TCC, you're on your own, you are in a relationship. Was it this time that you chose your career path? I mean, you had… tell us kind of some of the different places you worked, because I know you worked in, you worked in multiple places, agencies. Was it there that you developed your passion for public health? Jose Vega: Yes, so it was there. So I chose the dental hygienist program, but then I moved it to health administration, or just medical terminology, because I wanted to help our community and learn more about health care. My first official health care job was Saint Francis Hospital as a patient transporter on the weekends, and I would move patients from the emergency room all the way up to their room or from the room to the x-ray room and so forth. That was every weekend and it wasn't until I was translating, because there wasn't a translating system or somebody wasn't there to translate from English to Spanish. And I was translating for this patient and this doctor, this Orthodontist, sees me translating. And then he offers me a job and he's like: well, why don't you come work for me? I was like, well, I'm still in school and I enjoy doing this. And he's like: well, you'll work on the weekdays when you don't have school. And so, yeah, I worked for him for a while. He paid for me to go to get my dental x-ray certification, my dental sterilization equipment certification. And this was me during TCC, going through the dental hygienist. But then, after that role- that's when I switched work, switched to something else, to health care, but that was that's what I did for a while and then after that, and what made me do the switch was when I worked for Nova Health, which was the abortion clinic here in Oklahoma, and at that time it helped me understand more for women, understand more for also part of my religion, where we know that, where they were, in my Catholicism, where they say abortion is evil, is bad and so forth. But working there helped me understand what women go through, from assaults to their body, their choice. Everybody has a reason why they do what they want to do, and it helped me understand that these women need help as well, and I worked there for about 9 to 10 months. I learned a lot from that experience. I'm very proud to have helped those women who would come from the street to the clinic while protesters would chase them, show images, and I would go out there with umbrellas, with coats, and just give them access to health care when they needed it the most. I did that for a while too. Toby Jenkins: So TCC, living on your own with your partner or your boyfriend, did you complete your program at TCC? Jose Vega: I did, yes. It was medical terminology and a minor study like medical science, and then I went to University of Phoenix and finished it online because work was starting to pick up and I was like I need to switch online. I can't take off work or do it �12 in person and so forth. So I finished my degree online on health administration and hospital management and that's kind of where my health aspects started. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Is that your bachelor's degree? Jose Vega: That is my bachelor's- health administration, hospital management- and that's because I was a record technician and an administrative medical administrator at the Nova Health where I'm helping these women self-pay for these protocols and workflows and they didn't have an electronic medical record so logging all of their files. Toby Jenkins: Did you do any translation work? Jose Vega: I did do translation work too. I was able to do medical translation documentations- medical and legal. I did all of that and that's kind of where my career, through health aspects, started and that's why I graduated with that degree. Toby Jenkins: Somewhere in there you ended up the Tulsa World. So school, and you were still with this partner… Jose Vega: Yes. And then the ten months at the Nova Health Center is when the Tulsa World opportunity came. And well, hold on very shortly- sorry, backtrack- I worked at a medical imaging center- sorry, from Nova Health Center- for 10 months, then I worked at a medical imaging center and at this medical imaging center- it was a faith-based medical imaging center and I was let go after six or seven months, when they found out I was gay and they just said, Jose, we just we terminated, we just don't accept your lifestyle. And I was doing so good, I was translating their medical paperwork. I was translating their…I was helping with their records to electronic and I helped so many Spanish-speaking patients. I managed their schedule, but just because of who I was, I was let go and I was never back in the closet until that moment. And I remember going to the Tulsa World. I remember going to several interviews and they all asked what happened at your last job and I just said, just decided to move, just decided to do another role or something. It put me back in the closet. It wasn't till I was at the Tulsa World and I was interviewed by Susan Ellerbach and she asked me the same question that every interview asked me: what happened at your last job? And I broke down and I cried and I said I was let go for being gay and I've been holding this inside so much and in every interview they've asked me I've said for personal issues or something else, but I don't want to be hiding anymore. And she hugged me and she offered me the job right then and there, and that gave me the strength again. That gave me the I don't need to be, I don't need to be sure who I am anymore. I was very happy again because, she gave me the job. I was the newsroom assistant, I was her executive assistant and I enjoyed every moment and I helped with obituaries. I helped Mary and Sharon, everybody there at the Tulsa World. I loved it because it felt like I was working with, I was working for like…I think at that time the movie Devil Wears Prada had come out and I feel like Andy, you know just oh, yes, Susan, I'm ready to go, Susan, here's your coffee and so forth, but I loved it, but she was nothing like that, okay, �13 nothing. That's later on when we move into the center. But I, that was one of my favorite roles, yes. Dennis Neill: How long were you in that position? Jose Vega: Oh, that was about a year, some change. But during that time, I was the happiest I could have been because I was finally having a good, stable job. I wasn't ashamed of myself anymore. I had a boyfriend and had friends. But I wasn't active out in community. Toby Jenkins: Can I just ask you, were you having any kind of communication with family, your father? Jose Vega: No, I was still alone. Dennis Neill: When was it that you're at the Tulsa world. Jose Vega: 2012, 2013. Toby Jenkins: You are at the Tulsa World. And when you say you weren't active in the community, you mean the LGBTQ community. Jose Vega: Yeah, the LGBTQ community. And I say that because we would go to this club. We go to the clubs and you know, I was a young man… Toby Jenkins: Most of your friends and the community, the gay people, it was other Latino, Hispanic, immigrant community. Jose Vega: Yes. I had met in the Latino community, a lot of, a lot of LGBTQ, Latino, undocumented individuals- and that's who my community was- and a lot of Dreamers in Tulsa, and so I had my little posse and we would go out to the bars and clubs and I remember going out. They showed that you know, they didn't have documentationOklahoma documentation- but they had their IDs and passports from their country. We ended up going to a bar named Renegades. That's where we enjoyed going. And so we go, we show up, I give my Oklahoma ID and they give their passports and we're at the door and then they tell them: well, where's your Oklahoma ID? I'm like, what are you asking? This is an ID that tells you their age. And they're like: no, we need to show proof of their citizenship. And that's got started feeling like what are you doing? This is a real proof of ID. And they said: nope, we can't accept this and if you don't leave, we're gonna call immigration. That destroyed my friends. That happens a lot in the Latino community and document community is that they don't any kind of discrimination like that. They're just like: okay, okay, we're sorry, and they just leave. Toby Jenkins: It never occurs to them it might be illegal. Jose Vega: Exactly, and- and it still happens to today. �14 Toby Jenkins: Their first thought is: not my rights, treat me with respect, they just assume… Jose Vega: But they also don't want to cause trouble and they're afraid of immigration. Many of these people are running away from countries or neighborhoods or areas in their town or city where, for them, being gay, it's a death sentence, so they don't want to ruffle feathers. And I see that in my family too. When my stepmom or my dad or anybody was discriminated, they just bowed their heads and leave and just never came again. But I was so tired. I grew up like that and I was like how can a marginalized community marginalize another community. Toby Jenkins: And how can the gay community marginalize immigrants, undocumented individuals? Jose Vega: I thought this was a safe space, a safe place for all. This is why we have these safe places and especially like they're LGBTQ too. Doesn't matter where you're from or your skin color or your language, you're LGBT. I was very upset. I was very, very upset. This happened on a Friday night. I was very upset and I remember calling the LGBT Center the next day and leaving a voicemail and saying: how could somebody do this? Why would this happen? There needs to be some education on what IDs, identifications are acceptable, but also, how can this, how can this happen? And my friends were like Jose, just leave it, leave it. I'm like no, no, because I'm not that kind of person to leave anything like that. I didn't leave it when I was 15, 14 and Susan empowered me. So that happened during the weekend. I submitted a report, an incident report at the LGBT Center in Tulsa and through the helpline. And then that Monday I came in and I cried to Susan, I told her what happened that weekend and she was frustrated. She's like: how dare they do that to you too? She said, if they don't apologize by the end of the week, we'll run a front-page story on the Sunday newspaper. And I called the center and I said, hey, I really want to work this out. There needs to be an apology and there needs to be some education. But also I don't want any bad news for our community, but they need to apologize and they need to apologize to my community. So, Toby- and at that time it was Stewart the lawyer, Stewart Ashworth, and I think you both helped a lot in that aspect of legal and so forth- and so you, Toby, talked to the Renegade team and it wasn't till Thursday. They come around and we're like: okay, okay, we'll set up a meeting. And so we did. We met at Renegades. My friends didn't want to join. They're like no, no, we're just, we're never touching a foot there again. We're too scared. And I was like, okay, then I'm gonna represent you guys and I'm gonna represent all of those that came before us, because if they did it to you, they probably did it to other people and I don't want that ever to happen again. So I show up with Toby and this is kind of, I think, one of the first time we met, and it was a two-hour back and forth of no, we would never do that. We did not do that, this and �15 that. And we were very calm and collected and after two hours I just said: you know what? That's fine, I'm done here. You know what you did. Just know that you did it to the wrong person this time. And I'm going to be more active, and I'm going to create a committee and educate the bars and make sure that all of these LGBTQ places are safe places for everyone. And they ended up apologizing. And that Friday I came in, Susan, they apologized. Everything's good. And that's when I started getting more involved with the LGBT Center. Toby Jenkins: I think it was during that time, just while we're here, do you feel like racism and prejudice against immigrant communities is it an issue in the LGBTQ community? Jose Vega: I believe there may be some, but everybody has a personal experience. And as much as we've seen, I can speak on my behalf. Have I seen it? Yes. Have I spoken out towards it? Yes. Is there something we can all do about it? Yes. Because the LGBT community is so inclusive and intertwined that as long as you fall under the umbrella, you're part of the community, regardless of what your skin tone documentation is. But there is, so there's still a lot of education needed to happen. But why have inner fighting? Why not stick together instead? And that's kind of what stems my work with the LGBT Center and our DACA recipients. So in 2015... Toby Jenkins: So let's make sure of your... So you went through this experience and you said you wanted to get more involved. So we ask you to serve on our board of advisors and specifically create programming for immigrants, community, and Hispanic and Latino, Latinx individuals, basically becoming the liaison on this particular portion of our community to make the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center more inclusive and its programming more targeted towards our immigrant community and for specifically Hispanic Latino people. You had been asked to serve on that advisory committee. So that's kind of... You were on the board of advisors, so there we went on with that. And so you go ahead. Jose Vega: Yeah, so on the advisory board, I represented our Latino community, was more active. I was still involved with DACA students from TCC because during my time at TCC, I was involved with them. Even though I'm not a DACA recipient, I saw the need that they had. Toby Jenkins: And for our viewers, what does DACA stand for? Jose Vega: Dream Act... Deferred Action [Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals]. I just know that the group was called D-A-O-K, Deferred Action Oklahoma Group. This was for individuals, some immigrants who were raised here, not born here, but were raised here. They're practically citizens, right? They're paying taxes. They're working. They're trying to live the American dream. And so they were at TCC. I was very involved with them, helping them, supporting them. During my time here, I said, well, why don't we collaborate and bring them in? And I had the opportunity to bring their support group here and do some intertwined intersectionality education. The LGBT community to learn about Latino cultural, the homophobia within the Latino and the LGBT community to learn more about the Latino �16 backgrounds and support of their communities. So that's the first few active things I did. And then it wasn't until the opportunity to work... Toby Jenkins: Were you still with your boyfriend at this time? Jose Vega: Yes. Toby Jenkins: What was the next step? You're still working at the Tulsa World. Jose Vega: Yes. And then I had the opportunity to apply for a role, program coordinator at the LGBT Center. And it was a hard day because I came to Susan. I said, Susan, I'm thinking about applying. And she's like, Jose, do you really want to go? I was like, it's not that I want to go, but I really feel a calling. And she said, okay, that's a great place. So I went from the Tulsa World to the LGBT Center. But Susan was always supportive throughout that as well. I started as a program coordinator. And that's kind of where Toby and I were two partners in crime. Batman and Robin. Because he really took me under his wing. Gave me the professionalism, the guidance. He saw the Latino passion and fire that I had. Because I wanted to help those LGBTQ youth, LGBTQ Latinos, everybody under the LGBTQ umbrella, and to feel welcome. Because I saw the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center as the home that I didn't grow up or have. Or the home that I dreamed of. Because this center does mean a lot to me. So that's kind of where our role started here. And then we did a lot of programming. Dennis Neill: Jose, do you remember what year and how old you were when you joined? Jose Vega: 2015. Dennis Neill: And how old would you have been? Jose Vega: 22, 23. Dennis Neill: When you joined, how many staff were working here at the center? Jose Vega: Probably like a handful. Just three. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. And I think it was him and we had one other and a janitor and me. Jose Vega: Very small. We managed a lot of programs. Toby Jenkins: The center was packed. It was. Jose Vega: We kept it packed. Toby Jenkins: So you came on board and I remember you had a very good aptitude for public policy and engagement of our elected officials. You just naturally took to that. I know that's when you reconvened the Mayor's Youth Commission. Jose Vega: Yeah. I love that you brought that point because the Mayor's Youth Council really prepared me to talk about local politics and city officials. Every step of my world and life has got me to the point where I am and prepared me for the next. During that time, working on programming, developing new programming and events, �17 collaborating, helping take over the Equality Business Alliance. I loved the Mayor's Youth Council so much and the impact that it had on me that I was like, how can I help our youth? How can we grow the next generation as well? So I brought back the Mayor's Youth Council and we had our first cohort and it was great. We did get a lot of GSA leaders from it. That's another part that I like. Toby Jenkins: Explain what GSA is. Jose Vega: Gay Straight Alliance. A lot of those students from that first cohort developed GSAs at their school. And then that's kind of where we also collaborated and partnered with the Tulsa Youth Services and they started developing GSAs and so forth. Toby Jenkins: Campfire. Jose Vega: Campfire. The Mayor's Youth Council was really impactful. We did that, I did that every year from 2015 all the way to my last year in 2020. Toby Jenkins: So you also, two things, I've got to make sure we talk about this. Hispanic Affairs Commission, you were appointed… Jose Vega: Yeah, I joined the Hispanic Affairs Commission. I was the youngest to be appointed, and I was there for about a year and a half, and then I became the chair, also the youngest to run the Hispanic Affairs Commission for the city of Tulsa. And I worked in collaboration with city officials, our Latino partners, our Hispanic businesses, and we really helped move forward a lot of issues that our Latino youth and families go through from school to neighborhood aspects. Toby Jenkins: Okay, so you were appointed to the Mayor's Hispanic Affairs Commission. You started the Mayor's, and you were working with our allies that we work with here at the Equality Center. All of a sudden, I noticed you began to get some attention, and we began to convene and host Dream Act, would meet here. Sometimes we'd have 60 or 70 Hispanic young adults in the building. You were working with the Tulsa Metro Chamber on Mosaic and the Equality Business Alliance. Somewhere in there, some people began to notice that you could get the job done, and they started recognizing you, and you began to get some awards. Yeah. And the next thing I know, your dad is by your side, and your family's back in your life. Where in that time did you reconnect with your family? Jose Vega: It was at the age of 24 when my family came back around, and they had seen all these stories coming about. I was being reported on the news. Why are we at the Capitol today? We're here to fight for LGBTQ rights. Why are you doing this program? Because our Latino community needs access. And then my story was also being shared. Why are you fighting for homeless youth? Because I'm a lived experience of homeless youth. And my family came back around, and they apologized, and they asked for me to stop sharing my story. They said, Jose, we're sorry. We really want to try to reconnect but stop sharing your story. You know, people are looking at us, and they were seeing what they had done. And I said, you're more than welcome to come back into my life, but you cannot stop me from sharing my story. Because even today, it is still happening, and people need to know that there's a safe place, safe home. There �18 are programs out here. There are people fighting for you, so they need to know. And they said, okay. It was like, perfect. And so I'm not one to hold grudges, so we just forgave, and we learned to continue on. And my dad is by my side now. He starts showing up at Pride. He showed up one time, and I'm in tears. I'm like, oh, I thought you would never come around. And so he comes back. He comes around. I win my first award, 30 Under 30, and we had to go to Oklahoma City, and he's very proud of me. And then I win the Gracias Latino Award, and then I win the Tulsa Young Professionals, because I got involved with the Tulsa Young Professionals. And then the last one I won before leaving was the Leadership Oklahoma Award. Toby Jenkins: So you got involved with Leadership Oklahoma. They recruited you, and then you went through that, and they wanted you to create a Latino. .. Jose Vega: No, they had a Latino one already. Toby Jenkins: So you went through that cohort. Toby Jenkins: And then you said, why is there not a LGBT one? Jose Vega: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: Oh, gosh, this is good. So you created that program through Leadership Tulsa. Jose Vega: Yeah, so I did the Hispanic one, and it was so impactful. It really prepared me for the Hispanic Affairs. It really helped me get the tools that I needed for my Latino community. It made me great contacts too. And I saw how impactful it was. I was like, there needs to be a specific one for our LGBTQ communities. And in collaboration with them… Toby Jenkins: You almost had to force them to do it, didn't you? They were pretty resistant. Jose Vega: There was a little bit of resistance, but we showed them from the LGBT Center. We showed our data. We showed our community people that they needed it and wanted it. Toby Jenkins: And who funded that program? Jose Vega: The Schusterman Family Foundation. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. Jose Vega: And so we had two programs. It was called Lead Together. Toby Jenkins: And if I'm not mistaken, that became the first LGBTQ specific cohort in the entire nation in the leadership Oklahoma Leadership program that was networked across the country was the first one, yeah, where somebody had said, oh, we need to have one that raises up LGBT young professionals to serve nonprofits- okay. �19 Jose Vega: And we did get many people from that cohort joined the center, from volunteering to… Toby Jenkins: Went on to become on, get on the staff and serve on the board, yeah, okay. So you mentioned Tulsa Young Professionals. I just want to say how profound I am that you included that your family reconnected and that you forgave them. That is an incredible testament of your personality and your character. You were connected to Tulsa Young Professionals and you got it in your head that we needed to have a rainbow crosswalk. So with Tulsa young professionals and the mayor's office, Mayor Bynum and the City Council tell us a little bit about our rainbow crosswalks in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Jose Vega: As I was involved with Tulsa Young Professionals with the diversity team and we always did pride together and then they did one year the chalk, they did a crosswalk chalk that year and we saw how impactful it was for the community. They loved it. I would scroll on Facebook and see so many photos, and then you could see it from a mile, from down the street, on 4th Street, as you're crossing over the bridge you could see it and to me I was like we need this permanent. Tulsa Young Professionals had a grant to make Tulsa better and to what can we improve in Tulsa, and so forth. So I had applied for a crosswalk to get that funded and we won. It got approved. But we were getting pushback from City Hall. No, that is not traffic regulations, and so forth. So we got a lot of pushback and I I encouraged city officials like please help me, we need to write a letter, we need to do this. So this is where more advocacy came in. But at the end of the day, they said no. Toby Jenkins: Let's stop right there. The reason the answer is no is because crosswalks must comply with federal regulation, which also includes ADA specific. They have to be a certain color, they have to be a certain width, they have to be at certain areas. So we were mad about this. Jose Vega: We showed data from all this…from Dallas, Miami, New York, Sacramento has one. So all of these had them. So I'm like: what are you talking about? Just because it's federal, we as city officials we can decide what we want in our city and town, but no, I understand the regulations. So as I'm talking with Tulsa Young Professionals, they're like: well, Jose, what else can we do? And as I'm thinking and thinking and thinking, I was like: then we shall take over the street and called it Pride Street then. And that's when 4th Street became Pride Street and we got these pride signs and that's what, right down the center, you know? Toby Jenkins: Good, now, the reason I want to specifically talk about this is right now, while we're having this interview, all across the United States, cities are being forced to remove their rainbow crosswalks because of pushback from the Trump administration and federal regulations, and state after state governors have said we're removing them in their own homophobia and transphobia. But yet, for some reason, Tulsa's safe because we have street signs because street signs are controlled- a part of municipal code, not federal code. The lesson I want this interview is: ask big and grab what you can get. �20 Jose Vega: Yeah, well, how I word that is: shoot for the moon and if you land among the stars. Toby Jenkins: Okay, very good. I've got a bunch of other things. Any questions, Mr. Neill? Dennis Neill: Let's talk about your growth within OkEq, your changing positions, and then also we want to touch on your hate crime or hate crimes during your experience as an adult. Jose Vega: I started as program coordinator, and then we've had such great success and growth. I had the opportunity to get a promotion and become program director. And then deputy director. I ran pride. I loved it, every moment of it. We fundraised for pride. I loved the Gala, all of those aspects. And then I was learning everything from Toby, and he shared with me on how we need to be more active within the Capitol. Take students, take youth out there, their voices, write letters. We did a lot of letter campaigns and so forth, that I said, Toby, how can I learn more and take a more leadership role? And I had the opportunity to become deputy director, and I helped make executive decisions within the organization to make visible, to make our spot and space even more visible in different areas. So, that's when we were very active in that portion, you know. Toby Jenkins: Tell us a bit about the hate crime incident that you had happen. Jose Vega: There was a moment where I, it was during flu season, because I was so sick, and I go to Walgreens, and I go pick up some medication as I'm waiting in line… I have this Revolution shirt that I love, because, you know, it is, we were trying to take back what the state is taking away from us. And even to today, they're taking even more away from us. So, that Revolution shirt, I still have it. It doesn't fit me anymore, you know, it got a little thicker. I know, the Revolution continues. I remember working on that video, too. Pride t-shirt, the pride rainbow flag. And as I'm waiting in line, this man just turns around and calls me fucking Mexican faggot. And he starts getting pushy and trying to cause a reaction from me. And I'm like, just please leave me alone. I'm just trying to check out. He's just picking and picking and picking at me, and I ignore it. And that's kind of what we do with, we encourage our constituents, that if they're being bullied or targeted, do not... they're just trying to get a reaction from you. Try to get somewhere safe. So, the safe place where I was trying to run to, because nobody was doing anything, was to my car. So, as this person's just nitpicking, picking me, and calling me names, homophobic slurs and racial slurs in the Walgreens drugstore. I walk out, continues. It's not till I start unlocking my car that where he attacks me. He starts hitting me inside the car, and I'm pushing him out. Grab the door, lock it. He starts spitting and then breaking my mirror. But just the adrenaline, the fear of, I could probably, something really bad could be happening to me right now. And we've seen, during our time here at the center, a lot of lives lost in this way. From getting attacked, assaulted, just for being who you are. So, I thought that was my time. �21 And he left. We called the cops, and something that struck me was, the only reason we will consider this a hate crime is because they did racial slurs. I was like, what about the homophobic slurs? He called me faggot and started spitting at me, assaulting me. He's like, that's not a protected class. But because he said, Mexican and go back to Mexico and all that, that's how we'll classify this as a hate crime. And to me, I was like, how is only half of who I am protected? No. And that's kind of where we started to do more advocacy from municipal to capitol. Toby Jenkins: Okay. So how did the cops handle the issue? Professionally, or were you disappointed in the response by them and any other legal authorities? Jose Vega: No, I was not. I wasn't disappointed at all. They really handled it well. Dennis Neill: I believe he got arrested, didn’t he? Jose Vega: They did get caught. Years later on. Years later. But the thing is that they kept that case open until years later on he was associated with that hate crime. Dennis Neill: And with regard to that terrible incident that you experienced, you were very visible with OkEq these five years that you were there. How about other incidents of both the good and the bad? E-mails, calls, threatening you, threatening friends. Did you experience any of that or was this kind of a one-off, this one incident? Jose Vega: No, no…Working at the center, you are visible as a target. Toby and I would share a lot of fearful moments. You know, when the bullets came through the center, when there was a drive-by, that was a scary time. What if that happened while we were here? I'm very glad that we had bullet resistant… Toby Jenkins: We installed that later. Jose Vega: But that's scary. And then also my car being vandalized multiple times. Dennis Neill: While parked here? Jose Vega: Not while parked here. But parked at home. Slashed tires. Toby Jenkins: I think that happened at a gay bar. Jose Vega: At a gay bar. I knew the risk that it came. But I also knew the reward of what we needed to do. Toby Jenkins: One of the things that I want to make sure we include in this portion of the story, we're talking about the incident, and I don't remember the exact date, when the center, someone shot up the front windows and the front door. Dennis Neill: March 6, 2017. There's the door [leading into the archives]. Toby Jenkins: Olivia caught her ride at work that morning, and she got here at 8 o'clock and called it in the police. But what was hanging up on the porch? What was hanging on the sign? Jose Vega: Immigrants are welcome here. �22 Toby Jenkins: So we never know for sure if they targeted us because we were the LGBTQ center or that we were advocating it's a safe place for the immigrant community. Jose Vega: Regardless of which one it was, it's the Equality Center. The Equality Center is for everyone. Race, orientation, gender identity, or documentation. Toby Jenkins: We were doing a lot of work at the Capitol, and we would take how many students to the Capitol? Jose Vega: Like two busloads? I think one time it was. Toby Jenkins: We'd take over 100 kids, and you would march them through the Capitol. And legislators would just run for cover. They wouldn't have to talk to us. Jose Vega: I do remember us chasing one down. I was like, no, no, no. Where are you going? Toby Jenkins: Now, I can't remember. Were you with us when we were up there and they sent out the memo that there's cross-dressers in the bathroom? See if you can tell a little bit about that story. Jose Vega: Oh, yes. So we all arrive, and every youth is like, oh, where do we goto the restrooms? We show them where the restrooms are. Then, I think a little before, after lunch, they send a memo saying there's cross-dressers in the building. Watch out. They're using the restrooms. And do not use the restrooms. Go use these private ones. And it was offensive for the youth. Toby Jenkins: And that's the image I will forever remember. Jose and a bunch of young people chasing the Lieutenant Governor across the rotunda of the Capitol, demanding an answer. Jose Vega: They were avoiding us. Toby Jenkins: And, of course, by the time we got on the bus to come home, when we arrived in Tulsa, the streets were full of TV cameras and news sources. And within two days, one of the persons who's running for governor had issued an apology to the community. Jose Vega: They saw the mistake they made, yeah. And they apologized. Toby Jenkins: Now, how did you feel about that situation? Did you feel we're not putting up with it? Jose Vega: What was going through my mind during that time? Yeah. One, I love the youth taking charge. And we put them in front of the cameras. They expressed their feelings. So, to me, it was a proud moment to see the youth come together and see the change that they could create. And, yes, we accept apologies. But there's a lot more work needing to be done. So, thank you for the apology. Now let's create that apology into policies. Toby Jenkins: Okay. So it was during this time that we kept getting phone calls on the helpline from all across the country or all across the state. So we were getting as many �23 phone calls locally on the helpline as we were from rural communities all across the state, and so you were instrumental in rolling out our chapter establishment. Jose Vega: But part of that I want to share, the story of when you and I were working late one night, because that that that was what ignited my fire even more. It's like you already have a fire and just pour more gas into it. It was when Toby and I were working late, and there was many nights we worked late. You know, prepare the next thing. Toby Jenkins: It was like midnight. Jose Vega: Midnight, it was around midnight and as we're walking out of the center, on our right corner, on the right, I see we see a young man with his bare footed, bleeding and crying, and we look over. They share their name and they said: I just turned 18, and my family has kicked me out for being gay. And I walked from the [Oklahoma] Panhandle to the center because I saw on the internet that there was this place, and I just got here walking from the Panhandle to me and then we bring him in, we bring them in, we give them water, and to me I'm like we need to do something for all the LGBT people in Oklahoma. We need to let them know that there's something here but there's also made something in their hometown, because seeing that, we needed to do something. So that's kind of where we started doing these chapters- OkEq chapters- and we had one in Norman, in Stillwater, McAllister, Bartlesville. Toby Jenkins: We traveled all over the state. We went to Altus, Oklahoma. Jose Vega: Yeah, we wanted to make sure that every Okla queer, I think, and we came up with a logo too for that too. They knew that there was a home here. Toby Jenkins: And that they could organize in their own communities. You were there when we organized the chapter in McAllister, Oklahoma and on January 1st, 2020, Dustin Parker, who was one of the members- founding members- of our chapter in McAllister, Oklahoma, he was murdered and they just recently arrested his murderer. Yeah, and do you remember traveling…I think you traveled with Dennis down there for the memorial service, where a thousand McAllister folks were standing in a field outside of their little gay bar across from the prison, behind the prison cemetery. Jose Vega: Dustin was a staple in his community and he really showed what activism looks like- grassroots- and shared his story. Toby Jenkins: I can remember that night. What was your thoughts? While we're standing in that field with Dennis, the founder of Oklahomans for Equality, in McAllister, Oklahoma, to see how that city was grieving and also showing their support for LGBTQ people, did you have thoughts? Jose Vega: Yeah, as much as there's much more love in Oklahoma than hate, there's much more love, and love trumps all hate that there's out there. So seeing this small town come together for a community member- they didn't care about their gender, their identity, they came together for somebody who helps the community- come together show me that we need to do more for our state. We need to help our communities. They �24 made the- it's a small percentage- that are against LGBTQ community members. Because Oklahoma is about love. Our community is about care and support. That's why we have that southern love and charm. And we, I love that you always said, we're the prairie gays, you know. We have our lesbians chopping wood and helping build homes. And our gays churning butter to make sure we are fed and taken care of. And I see that, that's what we are. And all of those quotes stay with me. And I do share it still in California. And I was like, and in California they always tell me, oh that's a flyover state, who's all there? And I was like, there's prairie gays there. Our lesbians building homes, chopping wood, and our gays churning butter. That's my stomping ground. Toby Jenkins: That's funny. Let's go ahead and catch our viewers up. Because the pandemic comes. And then you eventually made some career choices. Before we talk about you going to do missionary work among the heathen in California... we sent you as a home missionary to California. You also, through collaboration with our foundations, created some programs that allowed you to travel nationally, internationally, and see LGBTQ people around the world. Jose Vega: Yeah, the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Schusterman Family Foundation, they support our LGBT community. They supported our cause. They allowed us to go to Creating Change, which is a conference that helped us prepare, you know, and learn what other people are doing and create change in Oklahoma. I did have the opportunity to join the Schusterman Reality Program. Toby Jenkins: Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Foundation Reality Program. Jose Vega: Reality Program. And their first one was on LGBTQ pride. Bringing LGBTQ leaders from across the country and going to go to Israel and get to see the great work that they're doing on LGBTQ aspects. And they have an LGBTQ elected official helping. And it was a beautiful experience getting to hear stories, sharing their cause, what they're doing to advance, and then get to see Tel Aviv Pride, which is one of the largest prides, come together and share that it's one love that we're trying to build here. Toby Jenkins: In your experience with these opportunities that you were allowed to travel internationally, because you always went to represent our center at International Pride, InterPride. So you went to several of those international conferences. Your thoughts when you've traveled internationally and all the divisive things humanity has that make us hate each other and... Jose Vega: We're fighting ourselves. Our inner selves. Each other. To me, that's not what the cause is. We have enough people that are not part of our community fighting us. Why should we fight among ourselves? We should focus our energy elsewhere. Toby Jenkins: If our panelists have anything else, jump in here. You decided to go to California. Jose Vega: But during my time at Oklahomans for Equality, I've had many opportunities. I have great opportunities to travel, to see things, to create change. I love every moment of my life that during my time here, it's become maybe the man I am today. But there was one thing where I've never experienced living somewhere else. And I felt in my heart of hearts that I need to have that experience. I've traveled, I've seen, I've done, but I've �25 never lived anywhere else. And I'm the first to come out as gay in my family. First to graduate high school. First to get a bachelor's, and now to get a master's. In 2019, I told Toby, I want to experience living somewhere else. I may come back, but I need to have that experience. And so I started sending my resume everywhere. And COVID came, February, January, offers started getting pulled out. We didn't know what was happening. And I had two offers, the LGBT Community Center in Albany, New York, and the LGBT Community Center in Sacramento. And then in August, I made the decision and I got the Sacramento offer, moved there in October, and I've been there ever since. I've had multiple opportunities out there too. So from the LGBT Center, I focused on COVID. Our LGBT community members didn't have access to COVID testing, vaccines, and so we were focused on that. But also, HIV rates were going up because people were not getting tested. But also, we're now staying six feet apart and we're still having sex. And so we focused on at-home HIV test kits. We opened a new LGBT Center out there as well. Toby Jenkins: Medical Center. Jose Vega: Yeah. And so I helped facilitate that conversation. So everything that I did in Oklahoma prepared me for that because we opened a new center. We created little chapters. I helped with pride. I was there for two years. And then I had the opportunity to think and see, you know what, I think I'm ready to come back home. And there was a moment where I came home and wanted to apply and applied for the role to run the center. And at that time, you had already retired. Unfortunately, it wasn't in the cards. And I decided to go back. I said, okay. So I went back. Dennis Neill: And just from perspective, this is June of 2022, correct? Jose Vega: Yeah. June of 2022. That was the last pride year and we talked about it. And I said, Toby, I loved everything I learned out here. I saw what programs and policies and things that we could do. I think I'm ready to take the reins. Due to other factors, it didn't happen. But I had the opportunity to go back to California and work with the Office of AIDS, the state public health department and work with the Office of AIDS. And I worked there for two years and a half helping across the state to develop programs to enhance their HIV testing, education, and capacity building. Toby Jenkins: You also got involved in their public broadcasting system. You want to talk a little bit about that. Jose Vega: Yeah. So my master's is in public health promotion and education. And I'm a firm believer that education is key to getting community involved. And so I started working with PBS and NPR and access channels to build educational programming in English and Spanish. And so we built, we did, it's called County Edition. And our first episode was on sexual health. And it was such a big success that they were like, let's replicate it. But now it's completely in Spanish. And it consists of a host, of a doctor out in the public getting information. �26 And from that, I collected data. And it's shocking that so many people still believe that you can get an STI from sitting on a public toilet. And it's 2026 now and people still believe that. So to me, education still needs to continue growing as STI and HIV rates continue to go up. And all of these fund cuts that are happening at a federal level where HIV prevention and STI prevention are getting pulled out, we're going to see a high rise on HIV infections and even co-infections with a rise of syphilis. And that's going to hurt our mothers. And I say mothers by childbirth because the rate of congenital syphilis has been skyrocketing. And those are little young ones. Toby Jenkins: And so you talk a bit about your master's. What was your master's on? You just completed it. That's why we're getting this interview. Jose has come home for a family celebration to celebrate his graduation from his master's program. So he wanted Pebbles to see what Oklahoma looked like. So he brought his companion dog. Talk a little bit about your master's work there. Jose Vega: Yeah, so my it was a focus on HIV education within Latino communities and what I love about it is the program that we've developed is PrEP 15 years ago next year It'll be 15 years where PrEP was the first medication to be approved to Prevent HIV and I'll share a little bit of my work about PrEP here in Oklahoma. As a gay young man I know that I was even more highly potential exposure to HIV, so I started advocating for PrEP and talking about PrEP that I wanted to be on PrEP. Many doctors here in California would say I would come in to the office and say hey, I want to get on PrEP medication What is that? Mary Bishop-Baldwin: You mean here in Oklahoma? Jose Vega: Here in Oklahoma, so this was before…taking you back into back into time during my time here at the LGBT Center where I was like, I want to get on PrEP Many doctors said no, I don't feel comfortable with that. I don't understand it. I don't treat AIDS patients. And I said well, this is before before I get HIV and this is to prevent it. Nope, I don't accept your lifestyle It was constantly and it was during my time here at the center because I had Community Care insurance at that time and no doctor would accept me or see me for PrEP. There was many times where I needed PrEP postexposure so having access to that too. That's kind of what drove my master's degree and advocate for that because that still happens in California even totoday. As an Oklahoman, I would think that Oh, California is more liberal, more open, more accepting. There's more access. The honest truth is it's not, there's still a lot a lot to do. My program and proposal and project development was - PrEP was approved in 2016-2015 15 years ago. So let's give PrEP a Quinceanera, It'll bring Latino communities together. It'll bring trans communities together. It'll bring youth together because as a Latino man, there's I was in about 15 Quinceaneras growing up. My cousin. Toby Jenkins: And a Quinceanera is… Jose Vega: Quinceanera is a coming-of-age for a young woman that they are from childhood into womanhood at 15 and my cousins did one. There's gonna be one tomorrow for my nieces. So I was like, let's give PrEP a Quinceanera. And so we're �27 building this program in California in the Central Valley where every Latino will be like, why are they giving this medication a Quinceanera? I had one like we're about to do one for my daughter. It starts the conversation and said perfect. Let's tell you about this medication because our Latinos make the highest population on HIV in California of new infections So prevention is key and that's kind of what I do and that's my role because I know the barriers I had to access in Oklahoma so that's the work of my masters. Toby Jenkins: I don't think we're really able to talk about the company you work for. Jose Vega: No, but what my role - I'm the HIV community liaison For Sacramento and Central Valley. I've now been promoted to the Northern California Region where I come into organizations and clinics to help with their protocols, their workflows, education, support their program capacity, building evaluations, collect data. But also bring the community together to help end HIV. Toby Jenkins: Okay So I guess you're organizing chapters again. Jose Vega: Exactly from everything I learned from Oklahomans for Equality prepared me. Toby Jenkins: We're coming to the end unless our panelists have any other questions for you. Dennis Neill: Jose, where do you see your future going? What's your passion in the next five to ten years? Jose Vega: My passion is to help elevate and grow others, you know, and what was done to me what in support for me I want to give it back. That's always been my love and passion. I had the opportunity to do The mayor's Youth Council at high school, so I wanted youth to have that opportunity. I had the opportunity to grow and develop at the LGBT Center, so I want to help other youth other LGBTQ professionals grow and develop. I had the opportunity to move of California and help with HIV elimination. I'm doing that too. My goal in life is to continue doing that prepare the next generation because there's only so much I'm gonna be able to do or get to that we need to prepare our next LGBTQ warriors. I tell Toby we're in a slingshot era where yes, they're pulling us back. But the moment they let go they're gonna catapult us forward where we're better prepared now. Of all the rights they've taken from us, we're better prepared to learn how they went around it to build better policies and procedures. A better understanding of what we need to do to prepare our next generation because they're going to continue attacking us. I want to create a space where every LGBTQ person can live, thrive, and be happy. And during this time, it breaks my heart to hear all of our Oklahoma prairies move and leave away, and that leaves no voices out there. So I want to give back to community. I want to continue doing what I'm doing and help every aspect of our population. Dennis Neill: So you see yourself professionally staying for the foreseeable future within the LGBTQ community doing this work? �28 Jose Vega: In the LGBTQ movement, yes. I will continue to dedicate my life to the LGBTQ movement, at one capacity or another. Toby Jenkins: Any questions? Mary Bishop-Baldwin: No questions. I just want to say that your story is the most incredible that I think I've ever heard. How you've come from such beginnings and had to overcome so much trauma and adversity, and you stayed with it until you achieved goals every time. You never took no for an answer, and you knew your worth, your personal worth, and you weren't going to let somebody else establish boundaries for what you could be. And look what you've done. I admire you so much. Jose Vega: Thank you. Thank you. And that's what I want. I want to inspire others. I want them to see you can do it. There's still more to you. Something that we always told our youth, you know, it gets better. Keep at it. It keeps getting better. Toby Jenkins: Sometimes. It may get tougher, but it also can get better. While we think about that, let's say, do you have a message for the future, for people who come after us and for people who may review this and are just starting out? Do you have a message for them? Jose Vega: Continue believing in you. There's people that love you. There's home here. Believe in you. You have to believe in yourself. It may seem tough right now. It may seem like the world is against you. It may seem like there's no safe spaces. Come together. Come together and create it. Come together and join forces. Find your people. Your people are out there. You just need to find them. And where you can find them is here at the center. I'm a firm believer of the center. I love it. There were many times where I wanted to give up, but I found community here and purpose, inspiration. Every single person here in this room has inspired me one way or the other. From Dennis in a little closet behind the bar doing the helpline. From Toby helping lead the charge for creating change and sharing that his first job was the portapotties at Pride and helping with trash. And from Mary advocating for our marriage equality when the time seemed that we could never achieve it. These are all stepping stones. This center was built from block to block. We need you to be the second layer of block and glue. Toby Jenkins: You've been joining us today. If you'll say your name the way you like to say it. Jose Vega: Jose Emanuel Vega. Toby Jenkins: And his sidekick Pebbles. Pebbles, you did a great job during the interview. You've been joining us today here in the Joe and Nancy McDonald Rainbow Library and the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center, headquarters of Oklahomans for Equality that sits on Pride Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Dennis Neill, founder of Oklahomans for Equality, Mary Bishop-Baldwin and Toby Jenkins have been your interviewing panel. Thank you so much, Jose. And congratulations on your Master's, your promotion at work. And thank you for not forgetting us and your family in Oklahoma. �29 Jose Vega: The revolution will always continue. Addendum: Top photo: Sign hanging at the Equality Center on March 6, 2017 when the windows and door were damaged by 13 pellet shots. Bottom Photo: Mayor G.T. Bynum, Jose and others celebrating the dedication of Pride Street on June 1, 2018. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Series] Oral Histories Project > Interviews Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br />Box 7, Folder 7 - Dr. Leisa Meyer Program<br />Box 7, Folder 8 - Interviewees Materials, Original Series 2003-2007<br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Jose Vega Interview Subject The topic of the resource Jose Emmanuel Vega Oral History Project Interview from May 22, 2026 Description An account of the resource Join us for an inspiring interview with José Emanuel Vega, a dedicated LGBTQ+ advocate from Tulsa, Oklahoma, now making a difference in California. He shares his powerful story of overcoming trauma, fighting for LGBTQ+ rights, serving as Program Director and Deputy Director at Oklahomans for Equality, and building community through advocacy, education, and leadership. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jose Vega, Toby Jenkins, Dennis Neill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource May 22, 2026 2026 advocacy AIDS/HIV AIDS/HIV prevention California coming out community conversion therapy Dennis Neill hate crimes HIV prevention HIV/AIDs human rights immigration interview Jose Emmanuel Vega Jose Vega leadership oral history oral history interview Oral History Project oral history transcript Toby Jenkins transcript Tulsa video https://history.okeq.org/files/original/becb438121720dd565ada8bbfd1b906f.mp4 b656019c480be508bfde81e620920228 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/70d89b126f8e77edd7edd5faee808558.pdf 5d82cc383b2468ea106cc0190ad571f2 PDF Text Text 1 Oklahomans for Equality Oral History Interview with Al Triggs Interview Conducted by Toby Jenkins Date: July 7, 2026 Transcribed and Edited By: Dennis Neill using Reduct.Video AI July 13, 2026 Restrictions: Interviewee requested: N/A Oklahomans for Equality History Project 621 E. 4th Street Tulsa, OK. 74120 918.743.4297 historyproject@okeq.org �2 About Al Triggs: Summary In this interview, Al Triggs shares his inspiring life story, from childhood in Oklahoma to his activism and career in Tulsa. He discusses his journey of self-discovery, love, and advocacy, offering valuable insights for future generations. Keywords LGBTQ, Oklahoma history, activism, community service, personal story, Tulsa, diversity, inclusion, mental health, legacy Key Topics Al Triggs' childhood and family history in Oklahoma Meeting and falling in love with David in Tulsa Al's involvement in LGBTQ activism and community service The significance of the Bruce Goff house and historical preservation Al's career transition to Medicare and health advocacy Experiences of racism and discrimination in LGBTQ spaces The journey of coming out and family acceptance David's health struggles and caregiving experiences The impact of community events like Feast for Friends and the NAMES Quilt Al's message of expectation and resilience for future generations Chapters 00:00 Celebrating 250 Years: A Special Interview 01:10 A Divine Meeting: The Story of Al and David 09:34 Home Sweet Home: Life in a Historic House 12:26 Friend for a Friend: Community Support and Care 18:17 Roots and Upbringing: Growing Up in Oktaha 29:26 Education and Early Career: A Journey Begins 29:53 Artistic Beginnings and College Life 31:12 Navigating Identity in College �3 33:11 First Connections to the Gay Community 36:34 Awareness of AIDS and Community Connections 38:03 Experiences of Race and Acceptance 40:04 Career Development in Tulsa 44:37 Involvement in the Arts and Community 51:14 Service in LGBTQ Organizations 57:58 The Importance of Documentation 58:01 Feast for Friends: A Community Tradition 59:55 Transitioning Careers: From Graphic Arts to Medicare 01:03:06 Teaching Medicare: Empowering the Community 01:06:12 Family Dynamics: Love and Acceptance 01:08:55 David's Journey: Love, Struggles, and Acceptance 01:11:51 Caring for David: The Challenges of Dementia 01:20:59 Final Reflections: Expectation and Empowerment Al Triggs Oral History Interview July 6, 2026 Toby Jenkins: Good afternoon. Today is Tuesday, July 7th, 2026. Our country just celebrated our 250th birthday. We are in the Nancy and Joe McDonald Rainbow Library in the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center in downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma, headquarters of Oklahomans for Equality. And today we have a special guest. Can you give us your name? Al Triggs: My name is Al Triggs. Toby Jenkins: Al Triggs will be a part of our interview today. This is your life. This is your story. And you get to tell us about your life. And thank you so much for being willing to do this. Our interviewers today are Dennis Neill, founder of Oklahomans for Equality, Mary Bishop-Baldwin, plaintiff in the Oklahoma marriage equality lawsuit, and Toby Jenkins. Al, just to honor our time, could you tell us, could we start, we're going to start not in the middle, but at the early part of your life. I would like for us to talk about your partner, David, and how you all met. Is that all right, panelists, if we start right there, and then we'll work back in the early part of your life. Tell us about your partner and how you all met, and how long you all were together. Al Triggs: Well, I'll start by saying it was truly nothing short of divine intervention. It really is. It is an incredible story. I met David, so being in the Muskogee area and would come up on the weekends and finally met someone, a couple of guys that were living in Tulsa that would invite me up to pool parties. And so this one particular pool party, I see this curly-haired blonde guy in a yellow bikini swimsuit walk out, and I'm like, oh my God, who is that? But at that time, he was with someone. And I thought, oh, they’re probably partnered up, not really knowing him that well, but I just made that assumption. And then I made another assumption, and that was, well, gee, he's gay. Every gay man in Tulsa probably goes out, so all I've got to do is come up to the bar on the weekends, Friday, Saturday, from Muskogee, and just hang out. Toby Jenkins: What year would this have been, Al? �4 Al Triggs: This would have been 1996. Al Triggs: And so I figured if I just hung out at the bar, I would eventually run into him. And so every weekend for a year, I would come up in hopes of seeing David. Now, meanwhile, my life back in Muskogee, as far as they were grooming me to be, I was already an usher in the church, so grooming me to be a deacon. And so needless to say, it was a little bit of, not conflict, but a challenge to kind of come out of that a little bit and to reach out to try to find this guy. But I continued for an entire year, and one night, I'm just completely fed up. I said, you know what, God? I've had enough. I've looked for over a year, and I'm done. And I was at Renegades, and I used to call it Rent-A-Gay. But anyway... Toby Jenkins: That is great! I've never heard anybody say that. Have you ever heard that? Oh, that is wonderful. Rent-A-Gay. And that was a bar, was a gay bar, at 17th and Main. Al Triggs: Yes, exactly. And that's where I was thinking, you know, it was probably one of the most popular bars back then, and that's where I would hang out. And so it's like, I'm just done. I'm headed to the door, and I look at the bar, and there's David. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And so I went over, and I said, hi, remember me? And he was a little bit three sheets to the wind, and so he's like, yeah, I remember you. I got to talking to him and, but the conditions, so David didn't go out. He was not one of those Tulsa queens that went out. He just never went out. And the circumstances that brought him out, this is what makes it, to me, nothing short of divine intervention, because the guy that actually helped him or provided him this wonderful piano, an 1896 Knabe piano, that's just incredible, from Tyler, Texas, was up visiting. And his name is David as well. And David from Tyler, Texas, had gotten and brought a friend with him from Texas. David had gotten really completely, from Tyler, Texas, drunk. And so much to the point to where it left my David, communicating with a perfect stranger. So David's like, well, gee, what are we gonna do? And he's like, I know what, we could walk to Renegades from here. And that's what they did. Otherwise, it would have never happened. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Where were they? Al Triggs: They were at the house, which is within walking distance. Toby Jenkins: Is it the present house now? Al Triggs: Yes. Toby Jenkins: Okay, I didn't realize that that was that close to it. Al Triggs: It's about five blocks, something like that. But yeah, so that's what brought him out, was to get this other guy out of the house after David had passed out. And so anyway, we went home that night and I spent the night with him. And get up the next morning, I think that was a Friday. And so I got up to go to work that next morning and I thought, I had heard things like, you don't wanna call too quickly and all this stuff. And �5 so here it is a week later. And this was pre-cell phone. And so I'd given him the number to where I work. He's like, I've gotta have your number. And it's like, okay, sure. And I said, but I'm not out there and so forth like that. And so all of a sudden, the following Thursday, I get this call. And my partner, work partner, William answered the phone and he's like, there's this guy on the phone called David was wanting to speak to you. And so I pick up the phone and he's like, this is David. He's like, why wouldn’t you call me? He's like, I think I'm in love with you. It's like, oh my God. Here it is. I'm just kind of, yes, okay, well, excuse me. You know. So it's like, yeah, but you're not gonna bring me out today. Toby Jenkins: Just for our viewers who are listening, this is in the days before mobile phones and cell phones, everybody had one. You had to have a landline. So you had your work phone number, your home phone number. Al Triggs: And that's it. Toby Jenkins: And you can remember all these numbers in your head. Al Triggs: Yes. Oh yeah, I could remember 20 numbers back then. But today, one or two. But so anyway, he said, well, you should come up and see me. And then so I did, and that was a Thursday evening. And then I got up that next morning and went to work. And he's like, it's the weekend. You're coming back, right? You know, he's like, why don't you just stay the weekend with me? And so I said, okay. And so was there that Friday, Saturday, Sunday night, Monday, I realized I'm commuting to Muskogee now. Cause literally it just, we were together every evening since then. Toby Jenkins: All right. And that would have been in 96. That's a beautiful story. So you said this, you brought it up. So I'll, we'll jump right in here. You went back to David's house and it's the present house you still live in. And in this interview, we'll bring up that David, Al's partner, we lost him. How, how many? Al Triggs: October of last year. Toby Jenkins: And so we'll hear a lot more about David, but the house you lived in, can you tell us a little bit about David's house that became y'all's house? Al Triggs: David, he was living at the Broadmoor on 21st street, which is condos there. And he happened to go down Madison one day and see that this house, a Bruce Goff home was for sale. And probably the reason why, and it had sat empty for about six months, but probably the reason why is because the neighborhood I'm in is more family oriented. And this house only has one bathroom. And so it wasn't really family oriented, but anyway, David found it and been there ever since. It's a wonderful home. 1919 Bruce Goff home. Bruce designed the house when he was 16 years old. Yeah, so it's a great house. I really enjoy it. It's just, it's magnificent. Toby Jenkins: And y'all spent your life there. Al Triggs: Mm-hmm, exactly. �6 Toby Jenkins: And so you've lived in a historical home, an original Bruce Goff home in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Dennis Neill: Tell us a little bit about the stove that is in that house. And how many carrot cakes have you baked in that stove? Al Triggs: 1925 Magic Chef. We figure they purchased it when it first came out in 1925. It still works. I have it serviced every once and a while. I can’t tell you how many cupcakes and carrot cakes it has cooked. Remember a Friend for a Friend, I would make some 150 carrot cake cupcakes. And so it's cooked quite a few carrot cakes. Toby Jenkins: You brought up the house. Are y'all ever on the Bruce Goff tours? I mean, have y'all ever... Al Triggs: You know, I do participate when I can, but they haven't done a house tour lately. You know, recently, about a month ago, was the Bruce Goff Fest. They seem to be more oriented towards the buildings more so. Toby Jenkins: Boy, I wish people were aware that homes... because from what we understand, Bruce Goff was an openly gay man, open about his sexuality. Al Triggs: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: I think it must probably delight him in the spirit realm that there's a beautiful couple that lived in his home, still lives in one of his homes. Al Triggs: Exactly. Toby Jenkins: Okay, you brought this up, so I've got it on my list. Friend for a Friend. You mentioned to Dennis, Friend for a Friend. Tell us a little bit about what Friend for a Friend was and your involvement in it. Al Triggs: Alice W. Bates is what I have to say first. An incredible woman. Gosh, such a huge heart. Channel 6, oh man, probably 28 years ago, did an interview with her about what she does specifically. An organization she developed as a result of her son who had passed from HIV… she wanted to do some type of tribute to him, and so she developed this incredible organization called a Friend for a Friend. It just simply was there to provide food, veterinary services for any HIV person in the entire city of Tulsa, if she could accommodate all of them. They would have free veterinary services, grooming, they would bring food. Toby Jenkins: So it was an agency that provided care for their pets. Al Triggs: Yes, for their pets. Toby Jenkins: That's why it's called Friend for a Friend, you were taking care of their pet friends. Al Triggs: Their pet friends, right, exactly. And Alice had, it was kind of a meager fundraising effort, I mean as far as... Toby Jenkins: Very grassroots. �7 Al Triggs: She was doing a thing at Panera Bread, and to where Panera Bread would give her a percentage of, so she, you know, let people know, hey come to Panera because part of your meal will be donated to Friend for a Friend. And so one day, after doing this for many years, I went up to her and I asked, well Alice, what kind of money did you make from that? Because I know they're just giving you like, is it 10%? And something like that. It was ridiculous, it was a joke, it pissed me off. I said to her, thinking about it, brings back that anger, that they could really do that to this organization. They really deserve a whole lot more than 10%. So I said, Alice, well gee, I guess if they made $3,000, you made $300. And it's because of you they made $3,000. I said, that's just not fair, Alice. I said, I said, I think we can do better. I said, I make a pretty mean smoked chicken, and my friend Kathy, she can make some pretty mean ribs. And I think I can find some organizations like Lambrusco's to donate sides. And I think we can have our own event. And I think Oklahomans for Equality would be the perfect place to do it. And I think they'd probably even donate the facility for us to do it, just for you to have a better fundraiser. So we did that. Like I said, I would make some 150 carrot cake cupcakes. And then I'd get smoke inhalation from smoking all the smoked chicken. And the ribs, I mean, it would be enough to feed 80 to 100 people, yeah, at least. And so her first year, instead of her making a measly $300, she made about six grand, yeah. Toby Jenkins: And Friend for a Friend, why that organization, it was a specific need in the community because people living with HIV AIDS, all of their resources was going to their medication and their survival. And they didn't want to give up their pets. And so many times, they would go without food and maybe even their medication to make sure their pets were cared for. And so she saw that as a need. And it was such a feel-good experience. And you were such a leader in that. Did you work with Alice on any of her other projects…her Our House? Al Triggs: No, no, I just exclusively stayed within that lane. It was kind of like if there was someone that tried to be more of the executive director of it, that's kind of the position I kind of felt in. Especially after putting together the fundraiser. And then we'd have entertainment, too, that would come and just have a wonderful event every time. It was great. Alice loved it. She really did, mm-hm. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: And that was here at the Equality Center? Al Triggs: Yes, it was. Toby Jenkins: Well, those fundraisers, but they, I don't know how many people. I mean, they had a veterinarian who would basically let them treat them on credit. When Alice raised the money, she would go in and pay them off. And sometimes that vet bill would get up to $3,000. Al Triggs: Yeah, definitely would. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, such a grassroots event. You alluded to this, that you were living in Muskogee. Let's talk a little bit about your childhood and tell us a little bit about your family. �8 Toby Jenkins: And then you mentioned that they were trying to groom you, I guess, in your family's church to be a spiritual leader. So just kind of tell us about your childhood. Al Triggs: Okay, so let's see. I'm the youngest of ten. Toby Jenkins: Audience, I want you to note, before all of the TV families who've made millions with bunches of kids, Al Trigg's family had ten people, had ten kids. Al Triggs: Ten kids. You know, I felt like I grew up in a family of three, though, because all the other siblings were often married with kids. I've got a few nieces and nephews that are older than me. Toby Jenkins: Were you one of the youngest? Al Triggs: Yeah, I'm the youngest of ten. Toby Jenkins: Did not realize that. Al Triggs: I had a great upbringing in Oktaha, but getting to the root of it, my, we were there because of a result of my ancestry was free slaves from Arkansas that was given 40 acres and a mule. And so the government back then came in and built a church and a school and initially built homes for about ten different black families. Toby Jenkins: So you were freedmen, you had beenMary Bishop-Baldwin: You didn't say freedmen. You said freed slaves. Al Triggs: Freed slaves from Arkansas. Toby Jenkins: Okay, so there was no tribal connection or anything like that? Al Triggs: No, there wasn't. Although we are Creek and Cherokee, but we don't have a role number, so forth like that. But so anyway, and that community was named New Hope. Perfect name for freed slaves. And so it was within the town of Oktaha. Oktaha was about five miles east of New Hope. I went to school in New Hope up until third grade. And that's when desegregation took place and that's when they basically said, you guys would have to start paying private school taxes in order to still be legal. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Was New Hope one of Oklahoma's all black towns? Al Triggs: Yes. Toby Jenkins: One of the original black towns. Al Triggs: You don't really find it on the map though. You would find Rentiesville and so forth like that. But New Hope was never really chartered as an actual city or town or anything. It's just not on the map. Toby Jenkins: But it had a church and a school? Al Triggs: Yes. And it got famous for its rodeo. The rodeo was pretty popular there and so forth like that. �9 Toby Jenkins: So in the third grade, you had to… Al Triggs: Desegregation took place and that's when they then bused us to Oktaha, which was the greatest experience a young black child could ever have. Because, yeah, it's incredible. There was no racism. No, even though we knew it was going on in Muskogee, heard about it, but that that community of New Hope and Oktaha, just so one hand within another. I would pick cotton on people's property. We would pick pecans and then white people would come and help us bale hay on our property on the 40 acres. It was just people loving people. Never, not once from third grade to 12th grade was there ever a racial incident, which is refreshing, was refreshing. And it helped me to grow up. I'm a different person because of it. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Did it make you expect that you would be treated that way throughout your life? Al Triggs: You said the key word. It gave me a different level of expectation. It was nothing but validation. And so, therefore, I grew up expecting validation. To this day, I don't just expect it, I demand it. And I see others that grew up otherwise and their expectation is totally different. And so you said the key word is about expectation because paired with this whole law of attraction, things are just, when things are not a match, if they do not match my expectation, I do not see this person. I do not visit with this person. They could be standing right in front of me, behind me, but we're never gonna have contact just simply because of my expectation. So that's the thing about Oktaha that is dear to my heart. Toby Jenkins: And you realize that that wasn't other people's experiences living in Oklahoma? Al Triggs: I did. Toby Jenkins: So you graduated from Oktaha. How large was your graduating class and what year did you graduate? Al Triggs: 38 and graduated in 1978. Toby Jenkins: Just curious, once the school integrated and they closed the New Hope School, what percentage of the student body would have been people of color? Al Triggs: About 9%. Toby Jenkins: Okay. So you still were the minority population in the school district. High school or school, did you have, were you involved in music programs, debate, sports? Al Triggs: Basketball, because of the height, they would look at me and say, oh, you're a center. And it's like, okay, I am, sure, why not? And then a little bit of baseball, yeah, stuff like that. Interesting thing, since we're on the subject of, I'll go ahead and answer this question that I know is probably one coming up, but this seems like an appropriate time to say it. So in high school, we were in the gym, and everyone was lined up to shoot free throws. And so all the guys were lined up, and so my shoes weren't tied, and the �10 class bully was in front of me. I bent down to tie my shoes, and all of a sudden, he turns around and grabs my head and sticks it in his crotch. And you know, everyone laughs and stuff like that, but I think that's when I discovered, I kind of actually liked it, and I think that's when I actually realized, I think you may be gay, Al. See, that was clean enough, right? Toby Jenkins: Yeah, that was great. All the coming up of the self-awareness, sexuality, that's probably the most unique spin on the being willing, okay, so, sports, but yet you were the youngest, was your family close? I mean, were they supportive of their kids' participation in school programs? Al Triggs: Oh, yeah. Toby Jenkins: And then you mentioned earlier in the interview that apparently religion was very important to your family. Al Triggs: Yes, my uncle was the Baptist minister in New Hope, and he was one of three uncles that were Baptist ministers, and then I had two brothers, Baptist ministers as well, so I was literally born in the church. Sunday school every Sunday, would never miss a Sunday, and yeah, it was, I enjoyed it, you know, enjoyed a lot of it, but I just couldn't, they lost me when they kept saying firely lake of hell is what my destination was, you know, I just couldn't buy that. Toby Jenkins: So, was your congregation integrated, or was it a black Baptist church, and it was still in New Hope? Al Triggs: Black Baptist church and that church is still there, and still going. Toby Jenkins: And is your family still heavily involved in it? Al Triggs: Oh, not heavily involved, one of the other families, their son became a minister, so now he's the minister of it. My family does still go to it, I think pretty well every Sunday. Toby Jenkins: So, you were the youngest, how many of your siblings, as you were growing, as they were spaced out, and you would get on the school bus in the third grade, how many of your siblings were also riding that same bus, I mean… Al Triggs: Two. It feels like a family of three that I grew up in, there was my sister right up above me, and then Leonard, and so I think, yeah, he graduated in 74, and she graduated in 76, so yeah, we're like two years apart. Toby Jenkins: And one more time, what year did you graduate? Al Triggs: 1978. Toby Jenkins: Are your, of the ten siblings, are all of them still with us, or? Al Triggs: No, there's six of us living now. Toby Jenkins: All right, so, this is incredible, just so fascinating. I can't get the image of the bully, but I'm trying to figure it out. �11 Al Triggs: He was really cute. Toby Jenkins: So, you graduate from high school, did you go to technical school, were you in the military? Al Triggs: No, I went straight to, I got out and went straight to college. To Northeastern. I got myself a grant to go to Tahlequah, and I majored in commercial art, that's what they were calling it back then, you know, these pre-computer days, so, they weren't even calling it graphic arts then. Toby Jenkins: Did you, as a kid, did you like to sketch? Al Triggs: Yes, and my sister Gwen, she was an artist too. What's funny is she used to take me to school with her at Northeastern, and I would stay with her, and she'd take me to the art course with her and not knowing that I would grow up and go to school at the exact same school with the exact same instructor, he was still there. R.C. Coons, definitely, but anyway, yeah, that was a nice experience, but I enjoyed school at Northeastern. I got involved in a lot of tennis. I directed a few tennis tournaments there, probably four or five, played with the tennis team a little bit. Toby Jenkins: Did your high school have a tennis team? Al Triggs: No. Toby Jenkins: Was there a tennis court in Oktaha? Al Triggs: No. Toby Jenkins: So you got exposed in college? Al Triggs: In college, yeah, and I was part of Northeastern's Activities Board, which is kind of the board that comes up with events for the entire school to do and so forth like that. Toby Jenkins: Interscholastic sports, intramural sports. Al Triggs: Exactly, and all the events that would go on. Toby Jenkins: So you're at Northeastern in Tahlequah You're a college student. Were you aware of your...how do you identify? What's your identity, your sexual orientation? Al Triggs: Him, his... Toby Jenkins: We see that's your pronoun. Al Triggs: Oh, well, I'm gay. Toby Jenkins: Okay, you identify as gay. Al Triggs: But yet, I didn't back then, because I'm like, how do you do this? I mean, I'm at Northeastern. I'm, you know, in the dorm, and I'm like, okay, you know, it's like a thousand plus people on this campus, and it's like, surely they're not all straight. And so the bathroom walls... �12 Toby Jenkins: But you had in your head that you knew you were attracted to men. Al Triggs: Oh, yeah, yeah. Toby Jenkins: Had you talked to anybody about this? Al Triggs: No, I hadn't. I just kind of kept it to myself and had difficulties in the shower in high school right before graduating. I was like, I'm gonna use the shower right here. But anyway, and so, sure, the bathroom walls would have all of this information on it, and I'm like, I'm not gonna lower myself to, you know, whatever the process is, whether it's tap your foot or sit in the restroom. It's just like, there's just no dignity in it. And so I decided, I'd just rather play it straight. So I did for five years. Five years. And it just didn't seem to be a validating environment to even consider coming out or anything like that and pursuing anything. Toby Jenkins: So this would have been in the early 80s, I guess? Al Triggs: Yes, 78 to 83. Toby Jenkins: Okay, at Northeastern in Tahlequah. Was there an LGBTQ gay campus group? Al Triggs: No Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Were you aware of any other students who you thought were gay? Al Triggs: Yeah, I was, but he was kind of trying to play it off with, I don't know, heavy involvement with this one girl or something, but I could tell he was gay and didn't, you know, want to... Toby Jenkins: So you get through college. Where did you first get connected to the gay community? I mean, because I know you've told us you eventually ended up in Muskogee. Al Triggs: Oh, yes, and so a good friend of mine, we became workout buddies. This stunning blonde-haired, blue-eyed guy, and just so nice. I would call him questioning, but yet also somewhat attracted to men, it seemed like. But anyway, he introduced me to the first two actual gay people I felt like I had ever actually been introduced to in Muskogee, and that couple wound up moving to Tulsa, and one of them started working at Renegades, and so he would always say, Al, you should come by Renegades, and it's like, oh, yeah. I know you're not out or anything, but he's like, it would probably help if you, you know, if you come out, and so I said, well, okay, guy, if you gonna be at the bar this weekend, I'll come. Toby Jenkins: And that would have been what year? Al Triggs: That would have been 1984. Toby Jenkins: So, in 1984 you had met some gay people. Some of them had originally lived in Muskogee and they moved to Tulsa. You were living in Muskogee. �13 Al Triggs: I'm still living in Muskogee. Toby Jenkins: And what were you doing? What was your work? Al Triggs: I was working at the Muskogee Daily Phoenix. I was a commercial artist for them for eight years. And this was, like I say, pre-computer. And so, there's a reason why they called it clip art. It's because there's a book over there with a ton of art in it and you literally have to go cut it out with scissors, run it through a waxer and adhere it to a grid sheet which represented the newspaper. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, so viewers, while you're listening to this, realize that in the old days you had to clip out the art and paste it in a book and take a picture of it. And now you just move it around on your computer. So, you're in Muskogee. You've met some gay people in Tulsa. Now, this is during the period…when did you start hearing about AIDS? Were you aware of that? Al Triggs: I was aware of it. Didn't have much knowledge about it back then being that I was still kind of in the coming out. Eventually after going to Renegades and visiting with my friend, sitting at the bar and visiting with him, I started meeting other people and that's when I met the couple that put on the pool parties which led to David. Toby Jenkins: During this time, most of your connection was through friends and the gay bars. Did you ever, as a black man, did you ever feel discriminated against in those gay spaces? Or did you ever feel fetishized? You know, people thought, here's a beautiful black man. Or did you just feel welcome? And as you said earlier, you demanded respect and expected respect. Was that your experience? Al Triggs: I think that was totally my experience. You know, people will ask me every once in a while, it's like, gee, you live in Tulsa. It's like, we know what happened there. It's kind of like, have you ever experienced racism in Tulsa? And I can proudly say I've never experienced racism in Tulsa. I can proudly say I think that's something I've been well protected from just simply because of the expectation. It's not a match to who I am, and so therefore it can't. Toby Jenkins: But surely you realize that that's not a lot of people's experience. Al Triggs: I do. And I realize how blessed I am to have this whole, even just the attitude towards it. And to know that this is truly how it works for me. And once I realized that this is what was going on, it was quite an aha moment because I realized it's just, I don't experience these things just simply because I'm not attracted. I expect the exact opposite. And so as a black and gay, it's the same both ways. To me, I expect to be accepted as a gay man, and I expect to be accepted as a black man. I think once accepting me as a black man first, the gay is just a shoo-in. Toby Jenkins: So you're living in Muskogee. We mentioned earlier how you met David, and you were commuting back and forth. So eventually, when did you move to Tulsa, and what became your career once you got to Tulsa? Al Triggs: I commuted to Fort Gibson for work, gosh, six, seven years. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: What were you doing at Fort Gibson? �14 Al Triggs: A graphic artist, specializing in packaging design. And it's the company that we were doing graphic arts for…A lady there made that carrot cake for me for my birthday. Every year. And when it came to that company closing, I got down on my hands and knees and begged for the recipe. Like, I gotta have this recipe. It's like, and I thought, this is everyone's grandma's recipe, everyone's, she gave it to me like it wasn't nothing but a thing, oh yeah, here, you know. I gotta tell ya, it's been since 1994, and I've never ran into that cake recipe anywhere. Toby Jenkins: And how many of those do you think you've made? Al Triggs: Hundreds, hundreds. I can't make enough of them. Toby Jenkins: So you're in Fort Gibson. Al Triggs: Oh yeah, and so I just had to throw that in there. But yeah, so I did that, and then I got a job here in Tulsa working for a company off of Peoria. They're still there, called Noria. Noria, that's just simply patented, they're a bunch of engineers that they do training on how to properly lubricate heavy equipment. We're talking like caterpillars. We're talking any industry, if there's oil in the machine, then they're gonna benefit and save multi-millions upon implementation of these, what they call, best practices within the first year. They had quite a few impressive clients, you know, Mercedes, Cargill, Toyota, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, the list goes on, across the world. They hired me, they would give me an 8 ½ by 11 sheet of paper with stick figures on it and text that I couldn't read and said, here, make it into a slide, make it into a PowerPoint slide. So that's what I did. I created a manual that's about two inches thick and I'd have printers come and bid on the print job and so forth like that. After two years of doing that, my manager comes to me and he says, Al, I want to pay you a compliment. I ask, okay, what's that? He says, I believe you've got the gift of gab. You're an incredible graphic artist, I think we would benefit better from you being our account executive. We'll increase your salary, plus you'll make commission and we’ll give you our database of clients for you to upsell. I want you to accompany all of our instructors on our training events. They did training events in just about every major city in the U.S. And so I would leave on a Sunday and the training would be Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and on Thursday. And so if it was someplace nice like Miami, I'd fly David in and we'd spend the weekend and I'd say, oh, just fly me back on Sunday. Toby Jenkins: And you were living in Tulsa by then? Al Triggs: I was in Tulsa at that time, by then. Toby Jenkins: And what was it that David did? What was his career? Al Triggs: David was a court reporter. For court reporters, it's a six-year job security. And you have to hope and pray that your judge get reelected, or the judge that is elected that replaces your judge is open to you being their court reporter. David was blessed to have 28 years, six years at a time. It was fantastic. Eventually, the last judge wanted a skirt. But yeah, he was really good at that. �15 Toby Jenkins: So you had this career. Let me kind of rush us along here. So you're living in Tulsa. I guess y'all had developed friends. I know at one time you sang with Council Oak Men's Chorale. Al Triggs: Yes, I did for, gosh, probably maybe five years. Toby Jenkins: How did you get involved in that? Al Triggs: David and I went to a concert, and he mentioned to one of our friends that was singing in Council Oak, I'm trying to remember who it was, he said, well, Al is a good singer. And I'm like, David, stop. The guy asked me if I'd come and basically interview and sing with him. And so I thought it sounded, it seemed like a lot of fun. I chose to enjoy it. The sound of the chorus, you know, and just the harmony that would be on the stage was just, it was just mesmerizing. I enjoyed it. Al Triggs: Were you singing with the chorale, the Council Oak Men's Chorale, which is our gay men's chorus, I mean, bi men, even straight men can sing in it. Were you with them when they went and sang at the state capitol? Al Triggs: No. Toby Jenkins: You did that for five years. Do you remember who the conductor was? Al Triggs: Andre Martin. Before him, I think Rick Fortner. But I was mostly under Andre. Toby Jenkins: That was such a, I call it a cross-over outreach. It was such an effective way to represent our community and pull in straight allies and people who needed to know our community. Were you aware that you ‘all were doing something pretty significant and historic? Al Triggs: I was. I think back then I was the only black member and I could tell the effect we were having on audiences. It seems that after you hear your audience kind of gasp after a certain song, it’s just so rewarding. I think that the statement that Council Oak Men’s Chorale makes is very important to our gay community. There are a lot of leaders within that group. There are a lot of people who are willing to stand up for the gay mission. I enjoyed my time singing with them and it just, you really only get six Mondays off a year. And it's a big commitment and my career started requiring me to be more involved with that, so I kind of had to let it go. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, and rehearsal's mandatory. They expect you to be at practice. Al Triggs: They do. But I was so, I've got to mention Greg Davis, I just, he's an incredible writer. That song I sang at David’s Memorial, which I'm still shocked to this day I was able to do. Toby Jenkins: Can you sing a little bit of it for us? I know the song you're talking about. Al Triggs: Yeah, it's the core of who I am and who David was, and still is. I've got to say, I've got to stop referring to him as was because he's gone out of his way to prove to me that he still lives and still does, definitely. �16 [Singing]-“I hear a deeper voice telling me I'm lovely and I am just what God intended. I am no mistake. The voice says welcome to this world. You need not live alone. I hear the words of shame and condemnation. But now I hear the voice. I hear a deeper voice.” Al Triggs: Greg Davis, for viewers, was a celebrated music composer and wrote extensively in the Nashville music circuit and the emergence of contemporary Christian music, which came out of Nashville, Tennessee, and many of America's top Christian contemporary artists sang his music until he was kicked out of that music industry for being a gay man. And we're fortunate to have still with us here in Tulsa and a lot of songs of the Council Oak that they performed, which other choruses went on to perform it across the country. I know you best from serving on the boards of TOHR and Oklahomans for Equality. Can you tell us how you got involved with TOHR and Oklahomans for Equality and eventually served on the board? I don't know how many times. Al Triggs: You know David, he loved TOHR and the organization and he- he was the one that took me to the first meeting and was involved…he was the type that he wouldn't, wouldn't the type that would get on the board and so forth, like that, but he would kind of coerce me and he's like: well, you should really join that organization. He's like you know, not only you know, because you know you're gay, but he's like you know you're a black gay man, which is like you know. He's like you've got the double whammy. You've got to be the example. Toby Jenkins: Representation. Al Triggs: Exactly. And so that's… Toby Jenkins: That's why your first meeting was. He invited you to, took you to a meeting. Al Triggs: I'm trying to remember- I think it was in this strip mall area, 41st street, but I'm trying to remember where exactly. Toby Jenkins: The Highland Park location. Al Triggs: Yes, that's exactly right. Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah. Once I started- I think, the Pyramid Project had already - I was just right on the heels of that, meaning I think you guys had already started that campaign. Toby Jenkins: And then the Pyramid Project was what? Al Triggs: Wasn't that the um, uh, where they were raising money for the organization to the tune of like, now, that was different than the capital campaign. Toby Jenkins: Well, no, it's the same. Al Triggs: It's the same thing. For the support of Oklahomans for Equality work. Toby Jenkins: Well, to buy their own property. �17 Al Triggs: That's right. Toby Jenkins: Renting facilities… Al Triggs: Right, because of the problem of being potentially kicked out every place we go. Toby Jenkins: And so you started getting involved and that would have been the early 2000s. Dennis Neill: I'm showing that you were the membership director in 2006 while you were on the board, and then I see that you, pretty much consistently, you stayed on the board most of the time of the 2000s into the 2010s. Do you recall when you first joined and how many years you served on the board? Al Triggs: I think it's been a total of about 18 years, I think it's somewhere along there. I pretty well just been a board member, you know, other than that one position that you just mentioned, just kind of an outside of the box thinker on the board, you know, and so forth, like that. Plus, I wanted to represent, as far as someone black in in the presence of the with the board. My goal was initially to try to integrate more black people in the organization and so forth, like that, which, you know, seemed like there seemed to be a disconnect and so that's one thing that kind of kept me on the board and re-upping, so to speak, as you know, just being a face. Dennis Neill: With all those years of service, what was kind of a high point of your service with Oklahomans for Equality? Al Triggs: A lot of the Pride events and so forth, there was just so much to do, but I don't know. I guess just all the support of the organization and seeing how people would support it and seeing it grow, basically, I think has been the most rewarding thing of all, being on the board that long and then now seeing where we're at and so forth like that. To me, the most rewarding thing is seeing the growth of the whole organization and how it continues to attract new members and so forth. I thought, well, I'm getting to be an old dog here. I can step off and let these young kids take care of it for a while. I must say, a few hiccups here and there, but for the most part, I think they've done an exceptional job. Dennis Neill: During this time that you've been in Tulsa, have there been some other non-profit organizations that you've been involved with? Al Triggs: Yes, there has been… the Tulsa Girl School. I was on their board for a while as well, and probably about some five or six years. And years ago, RAIN. I was on the board for RAIN for many years. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: It's the Regional AIDS Interfaith Network. Dennis Neill: And with RAIN, were you also on a team affiliated with one of the faith communities? Al Triggs: No, I was never on one of the teams, but I was just a board member that kind of supported. �18 Dennis Neill: Do you recall who was our director during that period of time here in Tulsa while you were serving on the board? Al Triggs: I do, and she's a Facebook friend, but I cannot remember her name. Well, Justice [Desiree Waidner-Smith] was heavily involved. Toby Jenkins: I know who you're talking about. Dennis Neill: It seems like there was one that was named Mary. Al Triggs: Mary? Dennis Neill: Well, Mary Catherine [Smotherman] was the head of the whole thing, but it seemed like we had a local... Mary Catherine she was head of the Oklahoma organization. And so she was head of Tulsa until we got further down the road, and then we had our own executive director here. And I can't remember, but it seemed like maybe her name was Mary. I could be wrong about that. Al Triggs: Yeah, I know exactly who you're talking about, but I just can't remember her. Toby Jenkins: That's why we say everybody write it down. Al Triggs: Everyone write it down, definitely, for sure. Toby Jenkins: I know one time I attended a Feast for Friends. Al Triggs: Oh, there you go. Toby Jenkins: We were having our Feast for Friends, and one of the stops was at you and David's home. But do you remember what Feast for Friends was and what it was a fundraiser for? Al Triggs: It was a wonderful event that basically people that would want to put on a dinner would volunteer to do so and supply the food, and the person would pay a certain amount to come and have dinner at your house. And David and I, we used to love to just make it just a wonderful event. And so I do the cooking, and one time we had Ernestine Diller perform in the living room. Toby Jenkins: Incredible performer here in Tulsa. Al Triggs: Exactly and had a wonderful pianist as well. We just love those events. And I had even, last time I was on the board, I was trying to talk them up again. Toby Jenkins: You talked about, do you remember what they raised funds for, Feast for Friends? Al Triggs: Wasn't it just for the organization [TOHR]? Toby Jenkins: No, it wasn't. Dennis Neill: It was for the Names Project. �19 Al Triggs: Oh yes, for the AIDS Quilts. Oh, and that's another thing too that I enjoyed with David was a trip to D.C. to see the entire quilt. Yeah, and David, he used to, whenever it was here, he would offer massages to the people working and watching the quilt. Toby Jenkins: When you saw it on display in Washington, D.C., were you all helping, were you volunteering to help lay the quilt down? Al Triggs: We were. David even, I don't know whether he took his massage bed or what, but he was doing massages up there too. I mean, it was quite a sight, especially when they had, all the quilts had been laid out, and they had everyone join hands around the whole mall area. It was just something. Toby Jenkins: Mary says RAIN… Mary Bishop-Baldwin: [reviewing publication] It says Jean Ann Van Krevelen, RAIN Executive Director [she was the state-wide director]. This was in 2002. Toby Jenkins: Feast for Friends was the principal fundraiser for the NAMES project and it funded, which are on display here at the Equality Center, facsimiles of them. One other thing, I know you've done a lot of work with our seniors, our older LGBT community, especially since your specialty and now you're a broker for Medicare. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Let me ask you when you changed careers from Graphic Arts to Medicare. Al Triggs: That was back in 2008. That wonderful job I had traveling for Noria, due to the economy falling in 2008, I basically lost that job because the first thing people cut back on in a bad economy, especially industry, is training. That can always wait. So a friend of mine that was there, that's a graphic artist, said, well, what are you going to do now? He's like, are you going to come back into graphics? And I'm like, to be quite honest, graphics is kind of saturated. The computer is taking that over, especially AI nowadays. He said, well, have you heard of the baby boomers turning 65? And I said, no, what's the statistic? Yeah, and he's like, between 2008 and 2012, there's going to be a 70% increase in Medicare beneficiaries. I'm like, oh my God, someone's going to need to help those people. And he's like, yeah, and there's not enough insurance brokers. So I decided to get my license to become an insurance broker, which felt like nothing short of getting another college semester under my belt. And got it done and happened to run into the right agency that kind of taught me everything I needed to know about Medicare and still do. So I've enjoyed doing that for 18 years now. It doesn't feel like it's been that long. And I teach Medicare a lot at different nutritional centers and so forth like that, because there's certain programs that just breaks my heart that there's people in Oklahoma right now that are paying that Medicare Part B premium having no idea that they qualify for what's called the Medicare Savings Program that will pay it on their behalf. The state of Oklahoma, DHS would actually pay that $202 per month. And I'll meet someone that's qualified for that seven years ago. It's just heartbreaking. �20 Toby Jenkins: Okay, note to self. Call Al about my supplemental. Al Triggs: Yeah, definitely, because I enjoy doing it. I helped a lady in North Tulsa years ago put $280 back into her little old $680 check. She didn't know she qualified for Medicaid. She didn't know she qualified for the premium to be paid. And the problem was I was seven years late. When I told her that, she said, well, praise God. I was getting ready to pull out my phone and do the horrible calculation of $280 times 12 times seven years. And she said the best thing she could have ever said, she said, well, praise God I've got it now. And I said, well, yes, ma'am. Praise God you've got it now, and you'll have it for the rest of your life. But I got to the car, did the math, and it was $24,000. I was so upset, pointing a finger at Medicare, crying all the way home, pointing a finger at Social Security, who failed this woman? And in the midst of my tears, I could hear my mother's voice saying, well, boy, you know what I taught you about pointing a finger. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Three's pointing at me. Sure. Yeah, I know. But how could I be responsible for this, you know? And then I just simply heard her say, well, who taught her to know? What? Who taught her? Wait a minute. Who? Wait. Who's teaching this stuff? It forced me to realize, wait, you've been doing it for three years now. Have you ever taught? Have you ever ran into anyone teaching Medicare? No. And so my sister in Muskogee, she goes to this nutritional center, and she had told the lady there in charge of it that I'm a broker and I teach Medicare. And she's like, well, have them come see me. I ask her, and she's like, well, boy, I've been here 40 years. Where have you been? I'm like, you mean in 40 years, nobody has come? She referred me to nutritional centers in Tulsa, 12 of which I would go in and teach Medicare, just freely teach it. It taught me the value of teaching first and putting the sale on the back burner. But there's just such a beautiful principle around kind of releasing something and releasing your resistance around it and just, I know it sounds crazy, but not giving a rip whether you made a sale or not and having that honesty about it. And it's just like some type of trigger or something because I never, I definitely didn't starve. If anything, I was doing really well because of logically people, once I taught them to know, they would be like, well, gee, maybe we should talk about our insurance. So as a result of my teaching, it's led me to be the, they call me their health benefit advisor for the Absentee Shawnee tribe. And it's just a contract that while I travel down there every other Wednesday, Thursday, sit at their clinic and talk to their people about Medicare marketplace, look for people that qualifies for this extra help program, just like the lady in North Tulsa and have found a few of those that qualified seven, eight years ago. The initial lack of teaching is how people have fallen through some of these cracks and not on my shift, my goal is to make sure every single member of the Absentee Shawnee tribe that is a Medicare beneficiary knows about this program that is, will pay their Part B, the premium. I'd love to have a bullhorn and go down the road and just announce it because there's people probably within yelling distance of here. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: And that's for very low income. �21 Al Triggs: For low income. Dennis Neill: Al, I think there was a program that David was involved in called Experience Weekend. Al Triggs: Oh, yes. Dennis Neill: Is that something that you recall and were you also involved in the Experience Weekend? Al Triggs: No, David had a lot of, and it's kind of like I was alluding to at the service, there was a lot of self-help type organizations and programs and so like, but this, that one was specifically a men's group that it was about validating who you were or who you are as a gay man and acknowledging that in other gay men and so yeah, he was, he was heavily involved in that, but I never, I never got involved with it. Dennis Neill: I think they had one or two of them here at the center, as I recall. Al Triggs: Yes. Yeah, I've got a few friends that I think attended the one here. Toby Jenkins: I want to talk a little bit about David and y'all's life together and then David's health diagnosis and talk a little bit about that….the last few years that he was physically here with us, and your thoughts about that, and as being a caregiver, and having a family, a partner. I'd like for you to talk a little bit about that, not just necessarily about, but your life together. I know at David's memorial service we shared a detail about the struggle he had had accepting his sexuality, and could you tell that story about him deciding Hawaii. Al Triggs: David was troubled once he realized that he was different in that way, and so he wanted to escape it all, and had planned to go to Hawaii and basically off himself. But when he got there, evidently Hawaii is so beautiful until the beauty of the place convinced him otherwise. And so instead he lived in Hawaii for about three years, and his brothers would come and visit him, and one of them, the last time that he had come over there, he said, well you need to come home. It's time to come home. That was after David had experienced being with the guy there. They were kind of in a slight relationship for a while, and so he had gotten more comfortable with self in a beautiful environment. And so then he was able to come home, and he returned to the States, and that's when he became a full-fledged court reporter. Toby Jenkins: And was out to his family. Al Triggs: Yes. Toby Jenkins: Okay, tell me, tell us about the time that you invited your family and David's family to share a holiday meal. Al Triggs: When we first met that first year, 1996, the Thanksgiving of that year, we decided to do Thanksgiving for his family and my family. Toby Jenkins: Together. �22 Al Triggs: Together. David has four brothers. Toby Jenkins: Okay, I just want to set the stage. Most Oklahoma families, the holiday meals are already stressful enough and so let's add to the component. It's a black family, a white family, and they're there in the home of their gay sons, who are a couple. What could possibly go wrong? This could have been a movie, Who's Coming to Dinner? Al Triggs: It could have easily been. I think it's a testament to each family as far as how much love is within the family and love no matter what. But yeah, so we invited everyone to Thanksgiving dinner. It was a, between the living room and dining room, it was a sit-down dinner for 38 people. And David was like, we had done little fancy name tags, and so David, it was…when it came to placement, who's sitting where, David took these name tags, and he went black, white, black, white, black, white, black, white. That way was a mixture of everyone, and it was so interesting, you know, doing that, everyone really got to know each other, and saw a lot of similarities in each other, and like to the oldest brother, his oldest brother, and my oldest brother, just hit it off like they've been friends forever. And so it was a testament to just a whole lot of love within his family, and within my family, and even my brother-in-law, he said, you know, especially within the passing of David and so forth, he said, that family is just really a nice family. And I said, yeah, and ours is too, and that's why we're such a good match. So I have two families. I do, I still participate. Toby Jenkins: Two Oklahoma families. Al Triggs: Yeah, I still participate with the Parsons as well. As a matter of fact, his brother, Uncle Steve, and Aunt Kathy Watch, my little baby, my little angel, my little Morkie at the house, so anytime I go to Norman, they take care of him for me. Toby Jenkins: Your puppy? Al Triggs: Uh-huh, they do, and I still attend their family events and so forth. I made it clear to them; I've been in your family for 30 years. I said, if there's ever a second family to me, you guys are totally it. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Well, it sounds like your own family was very accepting of you as well as of you, David. Al Triggs: Yeah, yeah. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: When did you come out to your family? Al Triggs: Oh, great question there. So, I alluded to earlier that David was always participating in these self-awareness type courses. There's one called Landmark Education, and it's an incredible experience. I learned so much through Landmark. But when I was in Dallas, and so there's this whole curriculum for living. I mean, I took a three-month course on one word, integrity. And, you know, you would think, how can you teach three months on one word? But they did it, and they did it well. I know integrity inside and out. �23 One of the courses was in Dallas, and I saw all of these people making bold moves. It's like a three-day…a Friday, Saturday, ending on Sunday. This one girl that stood up and said, well, I think I'm going to come out to my father. And he's a minister of this big church, a Baptist minister. And so, she told us all that. Well, the next day, so she did. She went home that night and told them. And then she came, and she told us exactly what happened then. She said, at one moment, he was coming into the room with his Bible, quoting certain verses. The next moment, he was coming into the room with a gun. And she said, but I was finally able to…he realized that it's his love for me that he had to come into alignment. And I thought, wow, how brave was that? So, I'm like, who am I? You know, here it is. I'm still not out. And so, in that very moment, I went out, and on the next break, I went out and got my phone and called my brother, Dezo, outside of Chicago, who was one of the Baptist ministers. He had about a 1,200-member church up there. And I said, Dezo, I said, I just wanted to call you because I said I think there's a reason why you and I have not been very close. And it may be because of the fact that I'm hiding that I'm gay. And the gentleman that you've known for me to be living with in Tulsa all these many years is not my roommate. He's my partner. The greatest thing about it was that this organization had you create an expectation. It's like, okay, well, before you do this, what do you really want to get out of it? And so what I had said was, well, I would want him to simply not judge me. And almost verbatim, that's what he said over the phone. He's like, well, he said, well, I will not cast judgment upon you. And implying that, someone else would. But yet, it was the most accepting thing he could say in that moment. It was like, you call the oldest and you call the one that you were the most fearful of knowing this information and just set it free. And I did. And before I knew it, the whole family knew, you know, because it spread like wildfire. A lot of my family members called me and said, well, we were kind of… She's one of my sisters said, well, mom always did say, I wonder why, he's a nice-looking guy. I wonder why he's never brought some young filly to church. And I said, oh, well, what would you say back to her? And she said, well, mom, maybe he's just taking his time. Then she said, but I kind of in the back of my mind kind of knew. Two of my best friends from Northeastern, one of them that I would play tennis with him and his wife and I, we became really good friends. And to this day, really good friends. And as soon as I came out to them, they're just like, oh Al, we already knew. Dennis Neill: Al, what year was this when you had this first disclosure? And have there been any family members either on your side or David's that have not accepted the direction of your all’s lives? Al Triggs: That would have been about 2000. David and I have been together about four years. What was the other part of the question? Dennis Neill: Are there any family members on either side that really have not been accepting of your decisions? �24 Al Triggs: Not really. Not in the, what I call, immediate family. I have a sister in, well, she passed away, but she was in California, in Sacramento, and they would probably, some of her kids may would probably be some of the ones that would be coming from, but I don't see them, and we don't really communicate very much too often. It's just the last time I was in their presence, they did seem to kinda… I had taken David out to meet my sister and stuff like that, and I could tell then that there were a few that had some opposition on it, but yet, such a tight family to where they…no one would ever really bring something like that up. If anything, they acted as if they were really more accepting of it than anything, when deep down inside, I knew it was like, you know, what are you doing here with your man? Toby Jenkins: So, tell us a little bit about when David's health began to decline. Al Triggs: David had dementia for seven years. It's kind of like, there's a aloneness that comes with that, with dementia. You feel like you've kinda semi-lost, your partner. The conversations become less and less. The time seems to somewhat go slow, because everything's just at a standstill pace. Your love for the person causes you to go through some incredible things. You realize that this person, if they were in their right mind, everything would still be wonderful. It was a lot. Toby Jenkins: And you chose for him to be in the house. Al Triggs: Oh yes, definitely, yeah. Toby Jenkins: And I know that y'all had a lot of folks who helped out, or, you know, I know he was…. Toby Jenkins: Warren Duvall made sure that he continued to participate in the seniors programming here at the Equality Center, and Prime Timers. Al Triggs: Warren was quite a good friend for him, definitely. He started falling close to the end. I can remember the actual day, May, no, it was March 24th of last year, when he initially had a horrific fall off of the back porch, which is five steps up, and just solid cement. And I had come home, and the first thing I would do would be… David was good to walk in the neighborhood, and he even developed some really close friends from some neighbors that, amazingly enough, lives in a house, same color, flat roof home. I don't think it's a Bruce Goff, but it looks similar. It's near Swan Lake, and it's exact same house number. And David, all of these characteristics, David just walked up to this perfect stranger on the porch inside, and said, I live in a home, looks a lot like yours, same color, same house number. I believe yours may be a Bruce Goff home. Anyway, and just developed, David was still, he could still find his way back and forth and developed some wonderful friends there that would not allow him to cross Peoria. David was the type to, if he was walking somewhere, especially in his later years, he would not speed up if there was a car coming. That car would have to slow down. After the fall, and that was such a bad fall, it was a good thing I was there, because he would have literally bled to death. He hit his head and evidently hit the main blood vein over �25 here. Cause it was spouting out about the diameter of my pinky. And I literally had to rush in the house to grab a towel and hold on his head. And thank God I had my phone where I could call 911. And so I had to held it to his head for 15 minutes before the ambulance got there. It was just downhill from there. Cause falls can bring on Parkinson's at an older age. And that's initially what happened. He fell at the house, hit his head again about four months later. And the next thing you know, he couldn't stand or walk or anything like that. And that's when Dr. Thomason said, well, we've got to get him into a skilled nursing facility to see if they can recoup him, and that was not possible, which led to a nursing home. That's where David just simply chose to stop eating. And eight days of no food definitely will do it. It was quite a journey. I'm happy that he was able to still be in the house the biggest majority of the time. We still came to the Gala, and we still attended everything that we would normally attend just like life was still going on. And he still recognized people and so forth like that. He had a great life, he really did. And I just hate it ended like it did, but he had a great life, for sure. Toby Jenkins: As we come to the end of this time together, you've already mentioned it. You're of a certain age, you've had a partner of 30 years in a career, and you work a lot with older adults. But what message would you want to give to someone who is looking for something to inspire them to work hard for our community or make the world a better place? Or what final message would you give to someone who comes after us and sees this interview? Al Triggs: It all focuses upon one word, and because I am a total result of this one word, and that is expectation. If you've got that, you can have everything, you really can. I'm just totally convinced. I would want them to expect life to be good for them. I would want them to expect to be powerful, not powerless, just because they're gay or just because they're black. I would want them to teach their kids the same thing. Because it is how I've gotten to where I am today, and how I will continue to survive and excel because it's everything. Just something as simple as expecting life to go well for you, and demanding it, and giving it up for God to take care of the rest of it, and I guarantee you, he will. Toby Jenkins: Well, today, our guest has been Al Triggs. It is July 7th, 2026. This is another oral history of the Oklahomans for Equality History Project. Thank you so much. Al Triggs: Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Series] Oral Histories Project > Interviews Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br />Box 7, Folder 7 - Dr. Leisa Meyer Program<br />Box 7, Folder 8 - Interviewees Materials, Original Series 2003-2007<br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Al Triggs Interview Subject The topic of the resource Al Triggs Oral History Project Interview from July 7, 2026 Description An account of the resource In this interview, Al Triggs shares his inspiring life story, from childhood in Oklahoma to his activism and career in Tulsa. He discusses his journey of self-discovery, love, and advocacy, offering valuable insights for future generations. Conducted by Toby Jenkins and edited by Dennis Neill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Al Triggs, Toby Jenkins Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource July 7, 2026 2026 activism Al Triggs Bruce Goff house care giving coming out Dennis Neill Dennis R. Neill discrimination Feast for Friends health care healthcare interview LGBT history Medicare NAMES Project NAMES Project quilt oral history oral history interview Oral History Project oral history transcript Racism Toby Jenkins transcript video Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Series] Oral Histories Project > Interviews Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br />Box 7, Folder 7 - Dr. Leisa Meyer Program<br />Box 7, Folder 8 - Interviewees Materials, Original Series 2003-2007<br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Alyssa Bryant Interview Subject The topic of the resource Alyssa Bryant Oral History Project Interview from May 29, 2026 Description An account of the resource Alyssa Bryant shares her life journey, from growing up in Oklahoma to her transition and advocacy for transgender rights. This interview covers her personal experiences, her legal practice, challenges, and contributions to the LGBTQ+ community. Interview conducted by Toby Jenkins. Transcript edited by Mary Bishop-Baldwin June 5, 2026. <strong>Video and Transcript available at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center for on-site research.</strong> Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alyssa Bryant, Toby Jenkins, Mary Bishop-Baldwin Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource May 29, 2026; June 5, 2026 2026 Alyssa Bryant available at Center discrimination Families family Gay Rights gender dysphoria healthcare interview legal advocacy legal resources Mary Bishop-Baldwin OKEQ Oral History Project oral history oral history interview Oral History Project oral history transcript Toby Jenkins transcript Transgender Transgender Rights video https://history.okeq.org/files/original/32e307a0685da0fb5f8040d6f08cb1b1.pdf fd3f6b5c66d8a54057fa6de42efc2548 PDF Text Text �� https://history.okeq.org/files/original/b2ad68bab393a8daeab66932c8b732cc.mp4 695b4045be1db9636b36095e53ee809b https://history.okeq.org/files/original/d80dffbe6a60cfe98ea0c621c945cda6.pdf 3d4ca6adb7c861d4cb1bb9201eb77d39 PDF Text Text 1 oklahomans for equality Oklahomans for Equality Oral History Interview with Barry Hensley and Terry Baxter Interview Conducted by Toby Jenkins Date: June 30, 2026 Transcribed By: Dennis Neill using Reduct.Video July 10, 2026 Restrictions: Interviewee requested: N/A Oklahomans for Equality History Project 621 E. 4th Street Tulsa, OK. 74120 918.743.4297 historyproject@okeq.org �2 About Barry Hensley and Terry Baxter: Summary This episode features a conversation with two long-time partners from Tulsa, Oklahoma, sharing their life stories, experiences with the LGBTQ+ community, and insights into the history of gay life in Texas and Oklahoma. Discover their journey through love, family rejection, activism, and resilience. In this episode, Terry Baxter and Barry Hensley share their experiences with LGBTQ+ advocacy, their careers in public service, and personal stories of love and resilience. Discover how their efforts have shaped community acceptance and the importance of authenticity. Keywords LGBTQ+ history, Tulsa, Oklahoma, gay rights, family rejection, activism, HIV/AIDS, coming out, community, personal stories LGBTQ+ advocacy, Tulsa, public service, marriage equality, community activism, personal stories, diversity, inclusion, history, Pride Chapters 00:00 Celebrating Pride and Public Service 01:59 A Love Story: How They Met 06:06 Life in Dallas: The Early Years 09:50 Facing the AIDS Crisis Together 12:03 Childhood and Family Background 19:56 College Life and Early Relationships 27:48 Moving to Tulsa: A New Beginning 30:40 Coming Out and Family Dynamics 36:10 Reconciliation and Family Relationships �3 38:38 Childhood and Family Background 44:42 High School Experiences and Friendships 50:10 College Life and Activism 01:03:37 Community Connections and Support 01:04:12 Early Community Engagement and Pride Events 01:07:54 Library Displays and LGBTQ Representation 01:13:17 Involvement of PFLAG and Community Outreach 01:15:27 Building LGBTQ Literature Collections 01:18:03 Experiences at College Hill Presbyterian Church 01:29:14 Marriage Equality Journey and Community Support 01:32:52 A Memorable Wedding in Victoria 01:34:36 The Importance of Legal Recognition in Relationships 01:36:01 Insights from Working in Municipal Government 01:49:30 Navigating Politics and Civil Service 01:52:06 The Evolution of Anti-Discrimination Policies 02:03:48 Reflections on Life and Legacy Barry Hensley and Terry Baxter Oral History Interview June 30, 2026 Toby Jenkins: Good morning, it is June 30th, 2026, the last day of Pride Month. And so, viewers, we have for you a very special treat. Individuals who spent their life in public service. It's such an honor and we have so much respect for them. Today, our interview and panel is Dennis Neill, founder of Oklahomans for Equality, Mary Bishop-Baldwin, here a part of the archives. And the marriage plaintiff from the marriage equality lawsuit. And this is Toby Jenkins. We're in the Joe and Nancy McDonald Rainbow Library at the Dennis R Neill Equality Center, headquarters of Oklahomans for Equality. And the dead center of the country, we're the gay outpost in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Today, our guests are very special to me and always been an inspiration. Could you please introduce yourselves? Barry Hensley: I'm Barry Hensley. Terry Baxter: I'm Terry Baxter. Toby Jenkins: Terry Baxter. And just give us your age. �4 Barry Hensley: I am 67. Terry Baxter: I am 72. Toby Jenkins: And you look marvelous. And just to blow our audience away, how long have you gentlemen been a couple? Terry Baxter: 46 years. Toby Jenkins: Yes. So we're just going to get started. And they've had incredible eyewitness accounts of our region and this part of the United States. But I just, if it's all right with our panel, I'd like to start at the very beginning part, how they met each other. And then we'll work backwards from the early part of your life. Barry Hensley: Sure. Toby Jenkins: And then your careers over the last 47 years. All right. So tell us the good stuff. Tell us, boys, how you met. Terry Baxter: I went to the University of Texas at Arlington for my undergraduate. And I met a guy there and we became friends. And he ran a flower shop in a mall when he wasn't at school. And so we stayed friends after I graduated from college. And every year he'd have a Halloween party, and people would dress up and come over and have fun. And Barry also went to University of Texas at Arlington. But being younger than me, I never knew he was there or anything. But he also met this mutual friend because he would go to the mall when he was bored and buy flowers for the apartment that he was living in. Barry Hensley: I’d go to the record stores and the bookstores. Terry Baxter: And all that stuff. So we ended up, both of us, going to the same party one year at this guy's house for Halloween. And we met each other at a Halloween party. I was dressed up in a bad toga. I looked like a, and I had a beard and a wreath over my head. Barry Hensley: It was the animal house era. Terry Baxter: Yeah. So I kind of looked like an animal house victim. And he was dressed up like a, I guess, what? Barry Hensley: I had a World War II sailor outfit on and a little hat and a necklace. So maybe an Andrews’ sister, maybe. Something like that. And I was very, very shy. Very withdrawn. And I was there with a friend. I kind of stuck by him. Because I didn't know anybody except the host. And everywhere I went in that house, Terry was right there. I'd go in the dining room to get something to eat and there's Terry. And I'd go in the living room where people were watching TV and there's Terry. Wherever I went, Terry was. Terry Baxter: I was magic. Barry Hensley: So we hit it off pretty fast. And the following Tuesday was election day, 1980, November 4th, I guess it was. And we had arranged a date to go to the Granada �5 Theater out in East Dallas to watch Elizabeth Taylor double feature, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and Butterfield Eight. And so Terry has come to the condo where I was staying. There were four of us living there, college years, you know. A whole pile of us in this condo. And Terry knocks on the door to pick me up for this date. And I let him in. I introduced him to my friends. And he said, what are you all doing? And they said, oh, we're watching the election results. Reagan is ahead. And Terry said, oh, good. And I said, WHAT? Terry Baxter: That was almost the beginning of the end. Barry Hensley: Almost the beginning of the end. We managed to work it out. But that was how we met. Terry Baxter: Well, Anderson. Barry Hensley: I know. I voted for John Anderson that year. I was so irritated with some of the stuff that Jimmy Carter had done, which of course I'd love to have back now. But at the time it seemed like... Terry Baxter: I'd like to have Reagan back now. Barry Hensley: I know. Yeah. So that's how we met. Toby Jenkins: In Texas. Barry Hensley: In Texas, Dallas. Toby Jenkins: So the city of Tulsa owes Texas a debt of gratitude. You met in Texas and was it love at first sight or did you, I mean, were you able to overlook his... Barry Hensley: I was unaccustomed to such attention, so it took me a while to kind of figure out, you know, what this was like. Terry Baxter: It was okay. Barry Hensley: So, I hadn't really been much of a dater or anything, and I didn't really have a lot of experience. I was 20, but it wasn't really part of my reality, and so it was a new experience for me. So, it took about till January before we finally decided that we were probably going to try to make a go of staying together. I think I moved in later that spring or early summer. Toby Jenkins: In Arlington? Barry Hensley: Well, it was in Dallas. I was commuting, actually, with Tom Neal. He was another one of the roommates, and he was getting his architecture graduate degree at UTA, and I was still getting my communications bachelor's degree at UTA, so we would carpool every morning from Dallas to Arlington. Terry Baxter: So while he was carpooling to go to school, I was carpooling to go to work. Barry Hensley: But it was good. Dallas was fun at that time, in the early 80s. It was a lot of fun to be down there. �6 Toby Jenkins: What were kind of some of the things that y'all did? I mean, did you go to the Cedar Springs afternoon gig? Barry Hensley: Oh, yeah. Cedar Springs was really hopping, the restaurants and the gift shops, and the Village Station was there. We weren't really bar people. I mean, Terry had been, like the Old Plantation was. The Old Old Plantation, which was downtown Dallas. So we didn't really do the bar stuff, but it was so exciting to be in that place at that time. Divine came in to do a book signing at one of the bookstores, it's like, wow, this is crazy. Crossroads Market. Crossroads Market. And just a fun, fun neighborhood to be in. I did have a friend, another, it was Tom and Laurie and a friend of mine named Al. The four of us were living together on Cedar Springs, just north of the Strip. And Al was a playboy, and he liked to stay out late. And one night I got a call, the phone rang for us, a landline back then, and asked me to come pick him up. And he had run down, he was walking back from the bars and had been accosted on the street. He was at one of the toll booths at the Dallas North Tollway, which was right off Cedar Springs there. And so I picked him up and we went right over to St. Paul's Hospital. They really worked him over. That was the only time that really happened. I don't think we ever felt afraid or anything at that time in the Cedar Springs area. Terry Baxter: We didn't walk around by ourselves at two in the morning, in the middle of the night. Barry Hensley: That wasn't, no, I've always been an early to bed and late to rise sort of person. Terry Baxter: He's early to bed and I'm late to rise, make that work. Toby Jenkins: It should have been, at the time, the proliferation of gay bars as finding ourselves all across the country and bars opening up all over the place. Barry Hensley: J.R.'s was there, Hunky's was there. And they're still there. Yeah, J.R.'s is still there, yeah. Terry Baxter: And every bar had their own kind of clientele. So no matter what you were into, you always had a place to go and feel, at least feel that other people were kind of like you were. Toby Jenkins: So this would have been the 1980s? Barry Hensley: We were there until I graduated in 83 and was living with Terry then. He had bought a condo down off of Maple, still in the neighborhood. And I was having trouble getting a job. And he worked for MCI, the telephone company. And you were a regional manager, is that what it's called? And so he managed to get me a job temporarily, we thought, when the mail girl had to go on pregnancy leave and I filled in for her and they liked me. So I stayed and they found another spot for me at the customer service office. Terry Baxter: He did a much better job than she did. �7 Barry Hensley: And so it was great. We were both working for MCI. That was the company at that time. Man, they were giving Ma Bell a run for her money. And Sprint was hot on our tails, and it was exciting to work there. It was a lot of fun. Toby Jenkins: But it was pre-cell phone. Barry Hensley: Right, right. This is 1983, 84. Toby Jenkins: Okay, just curious, you're in Dallas, which had a pretty large organized gay movement. And you just, young men, you just found each other and got with each other. Do you remember at that time when you began to hear about AIDS and HIV infections? Barry Hensley: We have always been, one of the things that was so frustrating to me is that if Mary's suit [referring to Mary Bishop-Baldwin and the marriage equality lawsuit] had come before the Supreme Court in the 80s and we had gotten that passed back then and the American public was able to get on at that time, which would have encouraged young men to partner up, you know, we were off the market basically, I guess is a way to say it, at that time. So we avoided that situation. Lost so many friends. Absolutely heartbreaking. Terry Baxter: I was in the Turtle Creek Chorale at the time. Yeah. Barry Hensley: When they first started. Toby Jenkins: The Gay Men’s Chorus. Terry Baxter: Yes, and I guess my first problem with AIDS was having friends getting sick and dying that were in the choir with me. One of the unfortunate events was we had a concert and the guy who was supposed to sing one of the tenor solos got too sick to sing, and so I just got to sing his solo for him and I felt, in a way, I felt good because here was my chance to sing a solo, but then you're singing because somebody else is sick and not able to sing, and when you're a singer, that's a very important part of your life, and it was very crazy that you know that people were treating it like it was his problem rather than a disease and or something he did that he deserved, instead of just luck or bad luck. We both are thankful that we got each other when we did, because we both have had so many friends pass because of HIV/AIDS and other things too. But if we had been continuing dating and doing the typical gay lifestyle that the Bible Thumpers talk about at that time, we might have been subject to that bad luck as well. Barry Hensley: As I said, that wasn't really our reality. Yeah, we didn't. We didn't date a lot and go out a lot, so I don't know what our you know who knows what your chances I mean I had. Terry Baxter: I could count on two hands and I had one longtime boyfriend who's still a good friend of both of ours- yeah, our best friends, yeah, but you know, that was the extent. Barry Hensley: I was ready to settle down with the white picket fence when I was 14. �8 Toby Jenkins: Beautiful, okay. So thank you so much for starting right there. But you know you found each other, you got with each other and you were an eyewitness to history together. But you have a pre-story before you got together. So let's pick that up. Terry, tell us a little bit about your childhood, your family background and your when you came out as gay or whenever you decided to live your authentic life. Terry Baxter: Okay, let's see, I was born in the 50s and in Dallas, Texas. You barely made it to elementary school in Dallas and you know, when you're in elementary school there's no gay or straight. You're just a person. And you know some of the videos we've watched there. They've talked about being bullied and stuff a lot. I'm sure I was kind of effeminate because you look at pictures of me, but you know, if anybody tried to bully me, I would just turn to them say, look, you bully me. Your parents are going to get a lawsuit and you don't want that to be your responsibility and they go. They didn't know what to do with being faced with reality instead of somebody wanting to fight back or run. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: And what made you have the presence as a child to say I'll sue you? Terry Baxter: I was a. I was a- what do you call it? Smartass. And that may be what kept me from being bullied more, because I could speak rings around other people. In fourth grade I had a teacher and a friend of mine. We were sitting in the back of the class. I usually sat near the front of the class because I didn't want to be distracted, but in this English class I was sitting in the back for some reason and we were talking and she was up there like Charlie Brown's teacher. So she says: Mr. Baxter, yes, ma'am, you're back there having a conversation. Would you please tell me what you just said? Well, I just said, and I said sure, and I quoted her verbatim because part of my brain was listening to her and part of it was involved in the conversation. So I was even kind of smart. I got all A's on grades, but then I always got marked down on citizenship because I wasn't. You know, I was. You know, Terry's a good student, but he needs to learn how to keep his mouth shut. Barry Hensley: And somehow, he never got fired. Figure out how that happened. Terry Baxter: Because I was smarter than the people I was working for, and so my father worked for the government, federal government, General Services Administration- and they built a new federal building in Fort Worth and so half of the government workers who had positions in Dallas were transferred to Fort Worth. And so that would happen to coincide with me leaving elementary school and going into junior high school. And my sister was sad because she was a freshman in high school, and all the people she had grown up with, she wasn't gonna be going to high school. And my brother was one year younger than me, so he was in sixth grade, so he didn't get to graduate from elementary school. Not that we really had any official thing like they do now when you graduate from every grade you go to. So we moved to Fort Worth, and I went to junior high and high school in Fort Worth. �9 When I went back to my reunions, I was happy to see how many gay people there were, but upset that I didn't know that they were when I was in high school, because we just didn't talk about things like that. Toby Jenkins: So did you know that you had feelings that were different than most of your classmates? Terry Baxter: Yeah, even in elementary school, we lived across the street from a 23acre park with a recreation center that had two basketball areas and a swimming pool and all that kind of stuff. And I would go watch the basketball games, not because I liked basketball, but because I liked seeing the guys in the shorts run around on the basketball floor. That wasn't in my head, I wasn't thinking I'm gonna go watch the guys in the skimpy shorts play basketball, or I wouldn't be thinking I'm gonna go look at the guys in the speedos in the swimming pool. It's just what I innately was attracted to, but I didn't think about it. So I don't say I didn't know why, because there was no knowledge of anything. It's just, I recollect as being an older person in high school that I, yes, there were signs of that when I was in as far back as elementary school. But there was never any action on it, because it was, you know, I became a Christian when I was 12, and... Toby Jenkins: What was your family background? Terry Baxter: My dad was a Methodist, my mother was a Baptist. My mother grew up in South Georgia, where they still have Confederate statues in the park. And my dad grew up in Chicago, so we had a blended, so we would go one week to the Baptist church, one week to the Methodist church, back and forth. And one time, my sister and brother and I just got together and said, we wanna join a church. And they said, well, which one do you wanna join? We said, the Methodist church. So I guess we were progressives even back then as kids. But, and later on in life, one of the interim pastors at my current church, when we were going between pastors, asked, how did you reconcile being gay with being Christian? And I said, well, there was never a reason to reconcile it, because I was Christian first, before I was sexual, anything. And then when I became having a sexual awareness, it was just another part of me. It had nothing to do with my Christianity. And so there was nothing for me to reconcile with. It was for other people to reconcile. Toby Jenkins: It wasn't a faith struggle? Terry Baxter: I never had a faith struggle, because God loved me, and it had nothing to do with my sex or the color of my hair or anything. So in high school, I didn't. I mean, it was funny that I found out about all these people that were gay, who they must have known each other was gay, but I never knew it. But I was the good kid that would go to, I'd go to school. After school was over, the church we went to was across the street from the school. So we'd go over there in the youth room and play pool and listen to records, early 70s records, Led Zeppelin and all that stuff on the turntable. So- �10 Barry Hensley: And you're still friends with those folks? Terry Baxter: Yeah. Went 50th reunion, and I mean, a couple of them we visited when we were in San Diego. AndBarry Hensley: Visiting another one next week in Portland. Terry Baxter: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: And this, you would have graduated from Fort Worth High School? Terry Baxter: Yeah, Paschal High School in Fort Worth. Toby Jenkins: And that would have been what year? Terry Baxter: 72. Toby Jenkins: And how many would have been in your graduating class? How big was that? Terry Baxter: 830. Toby Jenkins: So it was a large...is that a suburban school? Terry Baxter: It was the original Fort Worth High School, and it's not downtown, but it's close to downtown, and they built other schools as the city grew out. And so it was... and then at the time, I would have had 1,200 people in my graduating class, but the year I was a senior, they split, they built a new school, and some of the people went to that school. Toby Jenkins: So you went from there to Arlington to school, right into college? Terry Baxter: Right, right into college. I moved into a dorm, didn't know anybody, had a strange roommate. He brought a deep fat fryer into the room, because that's what he wanted to cook with, because his parents owned some kind of restaurant in Tyler, Texas, and he grew up eating deep fat fried everything. I'm just thinking about that deep fat fryer and all that grease and everything in the dorm room, and the smell. Barry Hensley: Don't think they allow that now. Terry Baxter: No, I don't either. I had a hot plate so I could heat up my soup. That was before microwaves. Toby Jenkins: So in college, did you begin to explore your sexuality? Terry Baxter: Yeah, when I went to college, I realized in high school that I was gay, but I didn't, I don't think I called it that. I just liked guys, and I didn't call myself a homosexual, as some people did. So I went to college, and I just, the guy that I told you a little bit about earlier, I met him, and we became friends and boyfriends, and we were, gosh, several years during school. Then when I graduated, he was still in school one more year, and two more years, and I moved to Plano because I got a job in Plano, and so we weren't living together anymore, �11 and we decided it would be okay for us to just break up and be friends. And then, interestingly, when I moved back to Dallas, we got back together, and then we just kind of drifted apart, partly because I was living with him when I met Barry, so Barry broke us up. And we would go to the bars. The Old, Old Plantation that was on Harwood in Dallas, we would go there on Sundays right after about two o'clock in the afternoon for the tea dance. You'd pay a dollar cover, well drinks are ten cents, and they fed you a good meal. They had an actual cook there that would make turkey and dressing and green beans one week, or fried chicken another week, and so basically for a couple bucks, you'd have a whole afternoon of socializing and dancing and eating, and you'd go there at 2 in the afternoon and go home Sunday night at 2 in the morning and hope you can get to work the next day. Dennis Neill: Terry, while you were at the University, what was your major or your extracurricular activities, and was there an organized gay community as part of the student campus life? Terry Baxter: If there was an organized community, I think that organized after Barry was there. Barry Hensley: Yes, I was part of it. Terry Baxter: Yeah, he helped start it, so there wasn't an organized gay community when I first started. Toby Jenkins: Visible, there wasn't a visible… Terry Baxter: Yeah, there wasn't an organized, I'm sure, right, and there was only one bar in Arlington, Texas, and it started up when I was a junior. So, you know, Tim was a, he wouldn't care, Tim was my, the guy I was dating at the time, was a film major, and I was a biology major, except I took all my other subjects were business classes, interestingly. My goal was to become a doctor, but that didn't happen because I didn't have perfect grades. I still talk too much, and it was during an era when the state medical schools in Texas were really striving to get women and minorities into the medical field because they'd always been kind of white men, and so even when I would have an interview, I could tell that they were just interviewing because they should, and not because they were really looking for another white guy to put into medical school. So I was taking business classes. Anyway, there wasn't an official recognition of it at the time. Barry can tell you about when he started it. I went to Plano because I had worked as a teller in banks when I was in school all the time and that's how I got kind of into financial stuff and I decided, since I had a biology degree and a minor in chemistry, I should at least try to use that degree somewhere. So I went to Plano, Texas, where Anderson Clayton Foods- which got bought up by Kraft ultimately- but they're the ones who had Chiffon margarine- it's not nice to fool mother nature- and Seven Seas Green Goddess salad dressing and all that kind of stuff and Mrs �12 Tucker's shortening. It was a viable company, and I went there and did my job to develop imitation cheese products and it was interesting at first. But then I realized that standing in a lab by myself all day in a lab coat, making minute adjustments to recipes to create imitation cheese and then holding panels for people to taste them and say which one's better and using that as your path to make it better, and not having any communication with people- I was in the lab eight hours a day by myself and I'm a talker and it's hard to talk to the blender that's blending up your imitation cheese. Barry Hensley: But to this day we'll be in the grocery store and he'll grab something. He'll look at it, look at all the chemicals in it and verbalize: oh, this one's okay, oh, you shouldn't have this. You know, put that back on the shelf. So he knows stuff. Terry Baxter: And when I was at a restaurant one time, I said the cheese in this is imitation and it's not a good one. And Barry said: how can you tell? I said because it tastes like a barnyard and it's just…You know, you develop the sensitivity to those things. I decided to go back into the banking business and moved back into Dallas and worked at a small bank- metro bank- in downtown Dallas and the lady who I worked with, the supervisor of the drive-in that I was working in, felt threatened by me, not in a physical sense but because I was smart and quick and being noticed by the management of the place. So her daughter got me an interview at MCI in the credit department, and I interviewed there and got that job. So I'd say it made her feel better and it made me feel better because it was a much better paying job and I was with MCI four and a half years. They transferred me, eight months before I quit, to Washington DC and I lived in Arlington, Virginia. And then they wanted to transfer me to New York and pay me the same thing they were paying in Washington DC, and I couldn't figure out how to afford living in New York on the same salary in Washington DC. Barry couldn't find a job in Washington, DC because he had come relocated temporarily- it's turned out to be, and so we both packed up our bags, put Grandma on top of that truck and drove to Hollywood- no, drove to Tulsa, and then we're out of work for most of the summer. But I got a pretty good severance package because they were doing a reorganization and so if you could not be in a place, fit you in the reorganization, they would give you a severance package. It was a couple weeks of pay for every year you worked for them, all your vacation and all your sick leave, and so that was pretty good. Barry Hensley: We'd moved to Tulsa and my mom was here and I had a lot of friends here. Terry didn't know anybody, so it was new to him. This is spring of 85. And so that summer we're trying to find jobs, and we ended up living at the Harvard Terrace Apartments at 26th and Harvard. I don't know how many people we know have gone through those apartments at some point in their lives. Toby Jenkins: They are great apartments. Terry Baxter: They still are. �13 Barry Hensley: It was 250 bucks a month. We didn't have jobs, they didn't care, as long as we could pay it. Terry Baxter: And then, of course, we signed the lease and I go: uh-oh, it says we can't have pets. She said, oh, don't worry about that, and she scratched it out because we had cats. Barry Hensley: So very nice place to live, but that got us through the summer. Dennis Neill: So how did you decide on Tulsa as opposed to your home state of Texas? Terry Baxter: Dallas had gotten really big. Fort Worth was beginning to become the right-wing bastion that it is today, and so I, just after having lived in Washington DC and spent my weekends on DuPont Circle, had the bookstore and stuff like that it was, I'd rather go to some place that hadn't grown up yet than go to a place that grew up wrong. So, and Barry's mother was here. Barry Hensley: She'd had some health issues, she'd had a heart attack. Terry Baxter: Oh, I guess I should go back. My parents had disowned me, so I guess I better go back and say how that came about. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, give us that real quick and then we'll get Barry's background. Terry Baxter: Yeah, because Barry can talk about Arlington and start again. But anyway, when I was working at the bank, I worked part-time at Sears in the credit office, and another worker at the credit office who— Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Is this while you were in college? Terry Baxter: Yeah. So I worked two jobs in college. And we were just talking to each other. And the sister of my brother's wife—so I guess whatever, she's not related to me—but my brother's wife's sister saw us talking together, and I guess he or I made some movement that made her think we were faggy. And so she told my brother's wife. And so one Saturday night when I got off work, I usually would go stop by my parents, because they had moved to Arlington at the time, sold their house in Fort Worth, moved to Arlington. And I'd go by their house just to visit for a little while, and then I would drive back to Dallas to go live where I live. I got there, and my brother and his wife were there, and there was a confrontation of— and to this day, I don't know what my sister-in-law thought she was going to get out of it, but she felt it necessary to tell my parents that I was gay, even though she didn't know for sure, but she made assumptions that happened to be correct. And it was not a good situation. I didn't speak to my father for ten years after that, because he wouldn't speak to me. My mother, I would send letters, and occasionally she would write a little note back, got your letter. But I never did understand that, but I couldn't drive home, because I was so shaken, because I didn't know what to say, because I didn't come out, because I knew it would bother them. But there was no reason to come out, because what I was doing �14 when I wasn't at home was not affecting them at all, but my sister-in-law had decided to make it affect them, which I thought was not in their best interest or mine. So luckily, Tim, who we'd been boyfriends and now we're just friends, was still at UTA, and I drove from their house to his place and stayed there overnight, because I just wasn't up to driving all the way back to Dallas with that going on. And so that's how I came out, or I was outed. In work situations, it wasn't officially don't ask, don't tell, but there was no reason to talk about it, because it was work. I think I didn't come out at the city until I was in, probably it was about four years before I retired, and we were in a meeting, and we were talking about something, and my boss said, well, what did you and your wife do? And I said, I don't have a wife, I'm gay. And that was the first time I said it out loud, because nobody else had ever asked. And she was like, you are? Oh, well, I don't know, it didn't mean anything, and she wasn't prejudiced about it or anything. But everybody else just knew, even though we never talked about it, because it was a state of being, not a thing. It was, you know, that's who I was. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: This was about four years before you retired, so that would have been about what year? Terry Baxter: About 2014. And every other place, I did my job better than most people do their jobs. I kept getting promotions. Every time I took a different job in the city, I had 12 different jobs, and that was to get more money, because if you work for the city, you don't get pay raises in place. You might get a 2% raise or 3% raise, but if you take a new position that's higher grade, you get a 10% raise. Barry Hensley: And you're still in the pension plan. Terry Baxter: And that's giving you more retirement and more of that. So I took advantage of the opportunities. I only used the opportunities once to escape, and I took a downgrade at that time to escape from a particular boss who was kind of like one of his later bosses. She loved you when you weren't working for her, but once you worked for her, she hated you if she hadn't hired you. And she tried to demote me, because I did not report into office when I was on jury duty. And I said, the city policy doesn't require you to report to work when you're on jury duty. And she says, well, that doesn't matter. I expect you to come to work. So I got with her boss and said, we can keep this in the family, and you can tell her that she doesn't have the right to do that, or I can go to HR and make this public to everybody that she's violating city policy by telling me I have to report to work when I'm on jury duty. And she said, that doesn’t matter, I expect you to come to work. I got with her boss and said, we can keep this in the family and you can tell her she doesn’t have the right, or I can go to HR and make this public that she is violating city policy by telling me I have to report to work when I am on jury duty. He took care of it. And so that was, but then I knew that I wasn't gonna, I was persona non grata with her from then forward. So I left the finance department and went to the fire department. �15 Toby Jenkins: What was your family's objection? I mean, were they embarrassed by it? Was it a religious objection over your sexuality? Was it political… Terry Baxter: I never got a good explanation from them. Dennis Neill: Was there a reconciliation over these years, the four players in that scene? Terry Baxter: When my dad got cancer and was dying, my mother decided that we should be able to, I should be able to see him before he died. Barry Hensley: It's 1990. Terry Baxter: And so I went back, spent some time at Thanksgiving, and spent some time at Christmas, and he died in January, 1st of January, not on the 1st, but in the 1st week of January. And that was the only, and he was already kind of not there because of the medication. And so it wasn't really a reconciliation. It was just a, you should not be able to see your father before he dies, and he should not be able to see you. SoBarry Hensley: We're friends with the brother now. Terry Baxter: Yeah, now. My mother, it tookBarry Hensley: His mother, okay. So she allowed him to come see his dad as he was dying in 1990. We had already been together ten years at that time. She did not allow me to come meet her or any of the family until 2002. We'd been together 22 years before she allowed me to meet the family. And I went downTerry Baxter: And she liked him better than me. Barry Hensley: And met the family, and they were lovely people, and this has been great ever since. So we've just wasted a lot of years. Toby Jenkins: This is profound, and I wanna make sure viewers capture that part of it. The alienation from the family, the family reject you, but yet apparently you stay somehow connected to them. Terry Baxter: Yeah, I would send birthday cards, but I always got them backwards until my dad finally said, I came first. Barry Hensley: Right. Terry Baxter: Cuz his birthday was September 16th, and hers was October 23rd. But I would always think it was her birthday on September 23rd, and his on October 16th. And so he said, in both cases, I came first, September, and 16 comes before 23. So then I finally knew how to figure out whose birthday card I was sending. But I tried to keep in touch. My sister and I kept in touch. My brother and I didn't for quite some years. But we do now. Toby Jenkins: Let's find out about Barry. Tell us a little bit about your childhood, your family background. Because if I understand, you were a Tulsan. �16 Barry Hensley: I was. My grandfather, my mother's father, left the extreme poverty of southern Missouri in 1915. Excuse me, 1910, and he was 15 years old. And he was hitchhiking to California, because that's where you went back then. And he made it to Yale, Oklahoma, ran out of money, turned around and came back to Tulsa, because that was the closest big city. And he stayed there the rest of his life. He went to World War I, came back and started the Moulder, Oldham Janitorial Supply Company, which was at 219 North Denver, which is where the jail is now, the county jail. And he had that business until he died in 1975. So my mom was born in 1930, and she and my dad got together. My grandmother was a very hard-nosed woman. She was a difficult mother, apparently, I have heard from her kids and from other family members back in the 40s into the 50s. She was a really difficult personality. By the time I came along in the 60s, she had mellowed a lot. She was a big supporter of mine, and I appreciated her a lot. But I knew I didn't want to do anything to cross her. So when I was a teenager, if someone suggested that you do some stupid teenage thing to get in trouble or whatever, I'd say, I can't do that. Grandmother will kill me. So that's how I stayed out of trouble, was having the invisible grandmother looking over my shoulder at that moment. But yeah, my parents bought the house we're living in now over near 21st and Lewis. It's not the big fancy houses on the south side. It's the little bungalows on the north side, although we did a big renovation on it when my mom died. But they bought that house in 1951, and that's where I grew up, went to Barnard Elementary, my beloved Barnard Elementary. My parents divorced. I was very young. Dad had already remarried and moved to Dallas by the time I was five, so I don't remember him at the house at all, and he had distanced himself quite a bit. Nice guy, and he would come up and see me and my brother. My brother was developmentally disabled, just the two of us, and Dad would come up on the holidays, you know, when you're in elementary school, Thanksgiving and whatever, the 4th of July. And we'd go down and spend a week or two in Dallas every summer with him and his new family. Toby Jenkins: Did he still continue to financially support the family? Barry Hensley: Not, no. Nope, nope, nope. He was supposed to. He did his own, well, he had his own family, and his new wife, bless her heart, she was a, he had a tiger by the tail there, so he had to provide for the two new boys that he ended up with when he married her. But yeah, I grew up at Barnard, and after Dad left, Mom, it's just Mom and I, because David, my brother, was off at school, as you called it back then, he was at school. He went to Hissom and some other places. But Mom had some issues. She had some demons that she had a hard time overcoming, and it's one of those things where the kid becomes the parent, you know, elementary school sort of thing. So there were, I didn't choke up here, because Barnard, that was my refuge. That was the place that I got away from the real world, and I loved it so much. And when it burned down, that just about killed me, even though it had been decades, you know, decades �17 after that. But it was a really good experience working at working, thank you, working at, or going to school at Barnard. Lifelong friends I still have. And then junior high school, I went to Holland Hall. The family decided that was a spot. My uncles had gone to Cascia, and Holland Hall seemed like a good alternative, and so I went. It was at the old campus at 26th and Birmingham. Toby Jenkins: Were you all Episcopal or… Barry Hensley: No, we were Presbyterian. Yeah, so grew up in the First Presbyterian Church downtown. I was in the choir, children's choir, and we participated. Mom distanced herself from it. She didn't really like it that much anymore, even though that's where she had grown up as well. My grandparents were already there when they built that building in 1925. So their names are all over the place down there. But grandmother still liked to go, and after granddaddy died, and I got my driver's license, I would take her down on Sunday mornings, and Dr. Wiseman was there then, and she liked him a lot. Toby Jenkins: Legend. Barry Hensley: Yeah, and but I think I was 17 or 18, and it wasn't Dr. Wiseman, it was a guest minister that week, and who went on this anti-gay tirade. Absolute tirade, and I'm sitting there looking at this. I'm thinking, this guy is nuts. This is crazy. The stuff he's saying is just not even true. Toby Jenkins: You were in high school? Barry Hensley: I was in high school. I was probably 17, and I probably hadn't really come to grips with my sexuality necessarily. You did what you did back then. You know, I'd go take a girl to the you know, dance and to the sweetheart ball or whatever, and those lovely young ladies, I'm still friends with every one of them. They are wonderful people. But yeah, so after that... Terry Baxter: And now they know why he didn't go any farther than just taking them to the dance. Barry Hensley: I was safe. Yeah, their mothers liked me. But after that event at First Prez, I still took Grandmother because she wanted to go, but I knew that I was not going to end up at First Prez, and Mom had already left. She had been exploring some other places, and so we'll talk about College Hill here in a minute. Dennis Neill: So Barry, how did your mother provide for you all? Barry Hensley: It was a difficult situation. She... My grandparents basically provided for us. Mom was... She was capable of holding a job, but as I say, these demons would get involved, and it made it really difficult. She worked for the Tulsa County Health Department for several years, off and on, sometimes part-time, that sort of thing. So I think the finances... You don't know it when you're that age, you know, but yeah, I mean, we got food on the table, but I had an entire... I had an entire group that helped raise �18 me. The two little ladies across the street, they were sisters, elderly sisters, and I would go spend time over there. I'd sleep over there. They'd feed me. They'd take me on trips with them. You know, the neighborhood and the family would step in when Mom wasn't able to do that, and I am forever grateful for all those folks coming together when I needed them. But it was funny. I keep thinking back now. I never got the talk from either of my parents, you know. You're just supposed to find out how the world works sexually on your own. Terry Baxter: Except his mother working in the health department. Barry Hensley: That's what I'm going to tell you about. So she does these county health fairs around Tulsa County. And so my education was all the stuff she left in the back of the car, which were brochures and fake breasts where you determine where the lumps are and all of those sorts of things. Because that's what she was doing, educating young women was her primary job. So I had all of this information in the backseat of the car. That was the talk. Yes, it was so funny. Toby Jenkins: You had more than most anybody else. Barry Hensley: Yeah, it didn't occur to me to go to the library. I should have done that. But I was at Holland Hall for three years, and then one year at the new campus. The new campus, been there 50 years now out on Yale at 81st Street. Good friends there, lifelong friends I made there. And then I went to Edison for 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. And we were just across… We were north of 21st Street, so we weren't in the Edison district. We were in the Central District. And at that time, Central had just moved from the building downtown where PSO is now, way the heck out, south of Gilcrease, their new campus out there. And mom said, I am not taking you all the way out there. Terry Baxter: Not that she took you to Edison. Barry Hensley: And Rogers was so close, it made no sense the way the lines were drawn. And Edison was literally two miles south of us. Terry Baxter: And it was because the railroad track that goes down to Broken Arrow Expressway, before the highway was there, was the dividing line, because kids could not cross railroad tracks to go to school. Terry Baxter: Yeah, my grandmother lived at 26th and Columbia. And so we used her address. And nobody was any wiser. Dennis Neill: And I think one of your good friends growing up was Scott Goodpaster. Barry Hensley: Indeed. Dennis Neill: Can you talk when you first met Scott? Barry Hensley: Yes. So at Edison, again, a bunch of lifelong friends, wonderful people. Toby Jenkins: Let me ask this real quick. So what year did you graduate? �19 Barry Hensley: 78. Toby Jenkins: 78. And how many were in your graduating class at Edison? Barry Hensley: Maybe 700, maybe. Terry Baxter: I can't remember exactly. Toby Jenkins: Still a big school. Barry Hensley: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: OK, now talk about your high school friends. Barry Hensley: So yeah, so several high school friends. Scott was a good one. I met him pretty quickly. We were 16. He just passed away. He turned into the most incredible artist and most incredible landscaper, gardener, just unbelievable. His yard is pristine. And when he died back in May, his family was so generous. None of them lived here. But they all came in to do all these arrangements. And they allowed me to take some plants out of his yard, which just really, so I sit in the backyard now. We have plants from friends, neighbors, co-workers, family, all of these plants, perennials. So I see them every year. And I sit out there in the evenings with an adult beverage and just toast the world. Terry Baxter: That was, we learned to do that during COVID and ever since then… Barry Hensley: We still do it. Yeah, I love it so much. But Scott was a golden boy. He was a handsome guy. Everybody wanted to be his friend. And he was a very private, very private guy. His best friend, who then became one of my best friends, was Stephen Breckenridge. Stephen was the great grandson of Waite and Genevieve Phillips, of Philbrook fame. And Stephen was a wild child. He was funny, everybody loved him. And that's part of it. He managed to get through school, I think, without being bullied. And the same way I did. I never got bullied. Because I think we subconsciously at that time realized that if you could make the bullies laugh, they wouldn't beat you up. So you did, you came up with humor, was the way that you diffused those situations. And Stephen was a prime example of that. And he was a hoot. So he was in theater, so I was in the theater stuff, and enjoyed that a lot. Toby Jenkins: So Steve Breckenridge, Scott Goodpaster, you’re all at Edison. Was anybody telling anybody that they had same-sex attraction? Barry Hensley: Yeah, yeah, there was a group of us, theater guys, you know. We... You know, you started experimenting when you were 16, 17 years old. Toby Jenkins: So, you know, there were high school kids at Edison that you were friends, lifelong friends, and you had figured it out by then. Barry Hensley: I had. �20 Toby Jenkins: And they had also. Terry Baxter: Yeah, I think so. Terry Baxter: Especially Stephen . Barry Hensley: Yeah, especially Stephen. I had never come out to my parents. I never did that. We never had a discussion about it. I lived my life the way I wanted to. I took the girls, as I said, to the dances and whatnot. Terry Baxter: But they did know because when we moved into our first house, his dad and I were working on basically stuff you do when you want to. Barry Hensley: Carpentry. Terry Baxter: Carpentry stuff. Toby Jenkins: That's right, because your father lived in Texas. Terry Baxter: Yeah, they didn't know. And he would come up here and he helped us. And we were planing the bottom of a door. And Gene just said, I'm glad Barry ended up with somebody like you. And I guess I took it meaning, because I knew how to do that woodwork and all that kind of stuff. But he also said, ended up with someone like you, which made it obvious that he wasn't confused about what our relationship was. Barry Hensley: He was a great guy. He just wanted me to be happy. I appreciated that. Toby Jenkins: So you were in high school. You've got this circle of friends. You were in theater and. . . Bary Hensley: Yeah, pretty much. I had been a soccer kid at Holland Hall, but didn't really do much in the gym at Edison. Graduated in 78. And Scott and another friend, Ben Crockett, and I decided to go to Oklahoma State University that fall. It would be the fall of 78. So we went. And you'll find this funny about Scott. So Ben and I got a dorm room together in Parker dorm. Scott pledged a fraternity. And we hadn't been at school more than probably a week or ten days. And one night after midnight, our dorm room door, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And it's Scott. And we open the door and he says, I am not going through this initiation ceremony. And we said, good for you. It's like we could have told you that was going to happen. But anyway, he slept on the floor that night and managed to get a room in our dorm, the other end of the hall. And these are the old-fashioned dorms where you have one central bathroom, you know, with the shower stalls and everything. And so Ben and I would get your towel and walk down the hall in your underwear with your bar of soap. And that was about it. And there comes Scott, who has his long robe on and his slippers. And he has a satchel over his shoulder going to the shower. Terry Baxter: Full of products. �21 Barry Hensley: Full of moisturizers and all of those sorts of things, cleansers of one kind or another. He was so careful about his skin. So it was a lot of fun. Toby Jenkins: He probably had a subscription to GQ magazine. Barry Hensley: Oh, yes, of course. No, he turned me on to GQ magazine back in the 70s. You bet. So we're at Oklahoma State University. And I decided it wasn't a very good fit, although it was kind of funny. I have a picture of it. So this was the era of Farrah Fawcett. You know, that poster of her and Linda Carter as Wonder Woman. And all the guys had all that up in their dorms. And I have this huge poster of Judy Garland at the Palace in 1967 on my wall at OSU. But again, I didn't get bullied about it. They were just completely confused, having no idea what it was. Terry Baxter: Who is that old lady on your wall? Barry Hensley: Yeah, that was pretty fun. So I decided that that wasn't where I wanted to stay the rest of my college career and that I hadn't really known my dad very well. And so he was in Dallas, and I decided to go to—I went down to several schools down there. I could use in-state tuition since he lived in Dallas and started going to UTA. UTA is a commuter school, so the weekends are pretty dull. People live everywhere else except for Terry and a handful of people in the dorms. It's empty on the weekends. So I'd go back to my dad's house on the weekends. My stepmother, bless her heart, would do my laundry. And so I would get to know them a little better. And this would be the fall of 79 I started at UTA. And quickly discovered, as you do when you're 19, 20, 21, I think it was in 1981, I would have been 21, and there was a group of us. We weren't best friends, but we kind of recognized each other as gay. And UT Austin, there had been some stuff coming out about their sort of gay-straight alliance, whatever it was called at that time, and we didn't have one. And we needed our little group. We got together at the one bar that Terry was talking about in Arlington to strategize about how we approach the administration about recognizing our organization. We went through all of this stuff and had to go through all of these, you know, bylaws and all these things to make sure that we fit the criteria for what they needed so they couldn't say no. And we did. We went through that process and I remember, I'll remember to this day, sitting outside the door. Only one of us could go in to make the presentation to the, whatever, the president and the board or whatever it was called. And the rest of us were sitting out in the lobby area just, you know, sweating like crazy. And he came out with a great big smile on his face. And that was the first recognition of a gay group at the University of Texas at Arlington. So that was very exciting. Dennis Neill: Do you recall your acronym? Barry Hensley: I don't. I don't know what it was called. It wasn't the Gay-Straight Alliance. We had a different name for it. But, it didn't do a lot. We didn't do a lot of, I mean, we'd have like a booth maybe, you know, at events and such. Terry Baxter: Registration. �22 Barry Hensley: Right. But I don't remember being really active that much. And I wasn't living on campus. Dennis Neill: When I interviewed Tom Neal, he talked about being active and helping form a group at OU. Was he also involved in this effort? Barry Hensley: No, I don't think so. I don't remember him being involved in that. No, I don't remember that. Terry Baxter: He was in graduate school and so he was not involved with the same people that Barry was. Barry Hensley: But when I was first at UTA, I lived just off campus in a little apartment. And that's when we were forming this organization. By the time I was living with Tom and Laurie and Al in Dallas, it was already in existence by the time we were commuting every day. So I got my degree in communications in 1983. And as Terry said, you know, went to work for MCI. And we came back to Tulsa in the summer of 85. And Terry had an interview at the city of Tulsa. And at that time, the city offices were [where the] the Aloft Hotel [is now]. Toby Jenkins: So why did you come back to Tulsa? Barry Hensley: Well, the cost of living is very inexpensive. And my mom was having some health issues. So we didn't live with her in the summer of 85. Terry Baxter: And we didn't want to go back to Texas. Barry Hensley: Yeah. And I still hadn't met Terry's family or anything. So there wasn't too much reason for me to be involved there. But anyway, so Terry has an interview at the city of Tulsa. There's a parking lot between that building and the Central Library. And so I'm sitting in the car. Toby Jenkins: Because in those days, City Hall was... Barry Hensley: Where the Aloft is now. Toby Jenkins: Civic Center. Yeah. Barry Hensley: 100 Civic Center. Right. The library is 300, I think, Civic Center. 400. 400 Civic Center. So I'm sitting there in the parking lot. And I'm staring at the Aloft Hotel, the city of Tulsa. And while Terry's having his interview, I didn't have a job either. And back then, if you needed a job, you had a trunk full of resumes. You know? And if something looked interesting or you saw a sign somewhere, you'd go in and talk to them. So I popped the trunk and I got a resume. And I went up to the fourth floor. That's where the business office was then. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: At the library? Barry Hensley: At the library. I didn't have any library experience. You know, I'm 25 years old. And the personnel director happened to be standing there at the little desk, talking to some of the staff. And she introduced herself and said, Well, I have a few minutes. Come on in. �23 And so I did. And she is still alive. She's having her 90th birthday next month. Lovely lady. And my life would not have been the same without her. Because she got me an interview, first of all, with Wayne Hardy in the Media Center. Which is where I really wanted to work. Because it was not books. It was movies and music and all the stuff that I really loved. I was into all the golden era of Hollywood and all of those things. And Wayne, very unwisely, turned me down. Because there was a former staff member that applied also, so he hired her back. I didn't understand it. But anyway, the personnel director then sent me out to Hardesty, which was then by Woodland Hills Mall, across from Dillard's at Woodland Hills Mall. And I got the job out there without one day of library experience. I started as a library associate. Terry Baxter: And we were in Eureka Springs when you got called saying you needed to come to work on Monday. Barry Hensley: I needed to come to work on Monday. So it was a very exciting time. I started in September of 85. Terry started in October of 85 at the City. He got a job there. Terry Baxter: They didn't want to hire me at first because I was overqualified. Toby Jenkins: So, City employee, and it was County-City… Barry Hensley: City-County employee, yeah. But we both are part of the same retirement system. Toby Jenkins: So you're part of the pension, the City, the County pension, or the City? Terry Baxter: It's the City one. Barry Hensley: The library had to make a choice decades ago and they went with the City. Terry Baxter: The City and the County formed them as a joint thing with their own board and all that kind of stuff. They kind of chose the parts that they wanted from each organization. Toby Jenkins: So they have the health department, some other things. Barry Hensley: I wanted to go back to something real quick because I thought it was, I thought it was interesting. You asked to put, have notes in, so I do. I realized after we moved back to Tulsa that my mom's, many of my mom's friends, I had known all my life, I had seen them in and out and, you know, they were just her friends from high school, mainly, and a couple of those guys were gay. And I, we sort of started realizing that and I thought it was so interesting that she, I think it was a don't ask, don't tell sort of situation, you know, back then. But these guys would step up and they would, you know, escort mom or her other friends to events or whatever. So, you know, I think that, I think it was a win-win situation. But I remember one of them, John, John Raveill, he was a Prime Timer here and he was, he and mom were good buddies from Central High School on. �24 And he told me one time, I just thought this was interesting, back in the 60s, back in the good old days, they would go, he and his buddies would go to, I think it was called the Taj Mahal, down on 7th Street, across from the Holiday Inn. And when they would get done, you know, middle of the night, late, the police would be waiting for them. And I'm so grateful for the police officers now. I always thank them at the pride parades and whatever else because they're so supportive and so helpful. Not so back then. So John said what would happen is his buddy would go through the door, the police officer would intercept him and order him to walk across the street. And so he would walk across the street and be promptly arrested for jaywalking. And John said, aha. So when the officer ordered him to do that, he walked to the corner to walk across with the light, where he was promptly arrested for disobeying an officer. So that was the environment that those guys had to live in. Toby Jenkins: Police harassment. Barry Hensley: It was harassment. Very basic harassment. So I was so grateful that, you know, things have changed through the years, yes. So are you ready for the library? Dennis Neill: Well, when you first came here in 1985, did you get connected with the gay community at that time? Or were you pretty isolated from the community? Barry Hensley: My old friends were the gay community for us. And we weren't bar guys. We didn't go out and do that. Terry Baxter: We would have friends over to Barry's mother's pool. And she would have all her friends and we'd have our friends. So there'd be 40 people at the pool every Sunday. Half of her friends, and almost all of our friends, were gay. But it was an interesting mixture of people. Dennis Neill: So TOHR wasn't part of your early introduction to the community, Barry Hensley: Not at that time. Terry Baxter: Only ancillarily, you know, like Tom's bookstore, we'd go there every once in a while to get stuff. But it was funny. Toby Jenkins: Did you attend any of the meetings at the library? Barry Hensley: I don't remember doing that, no. Terry Baxter: We went to the Red Ribbon Gala several times, until it became more of a social outlet instead of a fundraiser cause. Toby Jenkins: Did you ever attend the Pride Picnics? Terry Baxter: Yeah. Barry Hensley: Oh, yeah. Terry Baxter: He has a story about that. �25 Barry Hensley: Well, so I'm at the library in 1994, 25th anniversary of the Stonewall situation. And the library had never had a display of Pride anything. Yeah, I don't know if you can see that or not. But that's the first Pride display at the library in 1994. I had gone to the Central Library Manager at that time, my boss, John. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Did you still work at Hardesty? Barry Hensley: I had moved down to Central. I had been an interlibrary loan at Central in the late 80s and then moved to the Circulation Department. I managed the Circulation Department when this transpired, and then I went out to what was then West Regional and became the Zarrow Regional Library at 51st and Union. I was there for 21 years, and then I became a Regional Director and moved back to Central and was in charge of half the branches, the North and West branches. I went to John and asked if I could do this display, and he said, sure. So I commandeered this display unit, which was outside of... Toby Jenkins: Were you out to John? Did John know you were gay? Barry Hensley: Oh, we never talked about it, but sure. And the library staff were always, I mean, Terry was just with me. There was never any discussion. The library was a very supportive environment without necessarily verbalizing it, I think, at that time. And so I went around and found these books. This was in the South Foyer outside of Aaronson Auditorium, one of the old 1960s, the original display units. And at that time, Bruce Bower's A Place at the Table had been a big book. There were several things, and I thought that the 25th anniversary of Stonewall was a good opportunity to do a display. And at that time, analog…to get magazine articles that I wanted to put in the display on the other side, I had to go to the periodicals department. I got big binders of books, of magazines. You find Life magazine, you find Newsweek, you find the articles, you take them to the photocopier. You cut and you paste, and very analog. But I got the information out there, man. And so this display went up, and I hadn't heard any response about it, which I thought was fine. And then John caught me on the elevator a couple weeks after it went up. And he said, oh, I got a comment about your display. And I was kind of steeling myself for whatever that comment would be. He said, yeah, this guy pulled me over, and he said, oh man, thank you so much for putting up that Stonewall Jackson display. And I was thinking, Stonewall Jackson, 25 years ago? Is it really? Terry Baxter: He obviously didn't read what was in there. Barry Hensley: But I'll take it. Terry Baxter: He just saw the word Stonewall. Barry Hensley: So anyway, that was the first one. Toby Jenkins: And no protest? You had nobody? Barry Hensley: No, no. Nobody said a word. �26 Toby Jenkins: That is astonishing. Barry Hensley: Nobody said a word. Toby Jenkins: Maybe everybody thought it was Stonewall Jackson. Barry Hensley: Yeah, maybe. Dennis Neill: Did it make the media? Barry Hensley: Not that I recall. Terry Baxter: I think Tom said something in TFN about it. Barry Hensley: So yeah, so what happened after that was, I was on a roll. So Tom Neal had started the Tulsa Family News. I got approval to have a library column every month in the Tulsa Family News, the new books, the new, you know, whatever we were getting relating to the community. So I did that for as long as he had TFN. And there was some, there was a little kerfuffle about the distribution, because I don't think the library administration at that time wanted to go overboard on all of this. And so they found a loophole in the laws, the library rules and regulations, that we could not distribute to the branches and whatnot…You know, they have, in the lobbies, there are display units that have magazines and newspapers and that sort of thing. If it wasn't a Tulsa-oriented piece of publication. And at that time, Tom was getting blackballed by the local publishers in the city of Tulsa. He had to go to the city of Claremore, where he found someone to publish his newspaper. He would go up there and get it and drive it back and distribute it wherever he wanted to. And that was the loophole. It was in Claremore, it was published in Claremore, not in Tulsa. So the library decided they didn't need to do that. Well, after quite a bit of, if you know Tom, he doesn't take that sort of thing well. So eventually it rectified itself and we were able to distribute it to all the locations in Tulsa County, all the libraries in Tulsa County, which was very cool. But that also was the beginning of having a booth, a library booth, at the Pride events. So we had a booth at Mohawk, we had a booth at Owen Park. Terry Baxter: We had a picnic table. Barry Hensley: That's right, a picnic table with a rainbow flag that we bought across it, that's right, and a homemade sign. And a few books. Terry Baxter: And this table was slowly sinking into the mud. Barry Hensley: Yeah, at Mohawk Park, that was a soggy one, yes, I remember that. And at Owen Park, I remember, I know we were there at the summer of 1996, because over the intercom, they would play music and Ella Fitzgerald came on, and that's when we realized that Ella Fitzgerald had died that day. So I can't complain exactly. She was one of my heroes. Oh my god, it was so exciting when we were living in Dallas. Terry was my sugar daddy, sort of, you know. �27 He had a job at the time. I was a starving college student, and the Fairmont Hotel had a place called the Venetian Room. It was a showroom. For 25 bucks, you could have dinner and a show. So he started taking me down there and I realized I had this record collection of great American songbook stuff and jazz, a lot, still have it, and I realized that I could take my album down there and get these performers to autograph them because they didn't have a green room at the showroom. The performer stayed in the hotel so they would come down and go back up the elevator, which was in the middle of the lobby, and that gave me an opportunity to intercept them before or after the show, and they were all very gracious, and I got to meet and get autographs from Carmen McRae and Sarah Vaughan and Ella Fitzgerald and Cab Calloway and, oh my gosh, it was so exciting, Mel Torme and George Shearing and Keeley Smith and so much - Peggy Lee. You all may remember Peter Athens. He was a good friend of ours and from Holland Hall, before I met him, and he was down there for our, when we went to see Peggy Lee, and so I hightailed it after the show to get Miss Lee to autograph my album. She was very gracious, and I came back and Peter was so funny. He said, I can't believe you stalked Peggy Lee. I said, I did not stalk Peggy Lee. I escorted Miss Lee to the elevator and managed to get an autograph while I was there, but those performers, you know, these huge names, they didn't have any entourage. There were no security guards or anything, and when we saw Torme, Mel Torme, there were three of us. There was Terry and his old friend Tim, our friend Tim, and me, and another friend named Barry, and we were on the front row, the four of us, and Shearing was playing the piano. He was playing a solo. Torme was standing on the stage, just kind of acknowledging the audience sort of thing, and he looked down at us, looked at the four of us, and he said, what, no dames? You got us there, Mel, you know. I thought if I had gotten my wits together, I would have said, no, they like Jack Jones, because he and Jack Jones were big rivals, you know, but anyway, sorry, that was a little diversion, but so when Ella Fitzgerald died, and we found out about it at the Pride picnic, it just broke my heart, but in fact, when the PAC opened, I took one of the girls from high school to see Ella Fitzgerald as the opening of the PAC, and we're still friends today. She and Terry sing together in the Tulsa Chorale, so it's... Toby Jenkins: So, just curious, the library is at the Pride picnics, you've done this, were y'all, was the senior management ever telling you that they were getting complaints, or people protesting? Barry Hensley: No, and if there were, they at that time were very good about saying just what we discussed earlier, which is, you know, the library is there for everybody. Dennis Neill: When did PFLAG or TOHR become involved in helping you with the displays? �28 Barry Hensley: That must have been after I left the Central Library, which would be in 95, so... Toby Jenkins: Because I was always led to believe it was Mary Waidner and Nancy McDonald who got the... Barry Hensley: Well, Mary was certainly there, she was certainly involved, she worked there, yeah. Yeah, but it was a fun time, an exciting time, you know, to be there, and now, you know, every Pride parade, there's the bookmobile, you know, we have to go say hi. Dennis Neill: You really laid the basis for that outreach by the public libraries into our community? Barry Hensley: Yeah, and we never had any problem getting staff to participate. It was like, oh sure, I'll come down and do that. Toby Jenkins: But you included the books in Tom's publication, making sure the community... Barry Hensley: Yep, whatever new materials came out. Toby Jenkins: ...we have his collection domain, Tom's… Dennis Neill: Yes, all of those newspapers are digitized and available to the public. Barry Hensley: Great, that's great. Well, my columns are in there every month. Toby Jenkins: So we can go back and look at his… Dennis Neill: And we have a video from when one of the news stations covered the library display, and it featured, I think, maybe Nancy in that discussion or somebody, so it was Channel 2, Channel 6, but you laid the basis for all of that opportunity to expose people to... Toby Jenkins: Thank you. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Thank you. Barry Hensley: It was very exciting. Terry Baxter: And that John, straight man who's in the library, says, oh yeah, go ahead. And that was kind of good, too. Toby Jenkins: I'm curious, because, I mean, it became a lifeline. It became my salvation, my deliverance to an authentic life. Why were there so many books in the library around these issues? Were they asking you to research this and find the books you all needed in your collection? How was that happening? Barry Hensley: Well, I'm sure Mary was a big part of that. I was not at that time. I wasn't a part of collection building in any way. I mean, anybody could recommend. You know that we get something. But there are national booksellers, you know, who contract with libraries and bookstores to get the newest releases and whatever, and the library will �29 put their parameters in. We would like to do releases on these topics and this and this and this, and it was kind of becoming, you know, in the mid-90s. It was kind of becoming a thing that was being discussed and so the library wanted to be on top of it and, as I say, I'm sure Mary was a part of that, making sure that because she was in… Dennis Neill: Well, and part of it, you might recall, is that Mary and Nancy worked together to raise money that we would contribute to help buy those books. Barry Hensley: Yeah, that's so cool. Dennis Neill: So we did that, both through PFLAG and through TOHR, and there used to be a lot of the library plates and we would give them the books they noted it was donated. Toby Jenkins: So, was it wish lists? They would publish a wish list and then y'all would Dennis Neill: It was all very informal, but Mary and Nancy said we need to acquire these books, let's raise the money and we'd help the library buy those books. So we'd send out funds, probably to the library trust and they'd use those funds then to purchase those books. And then there were plates they would put in the front inside cover donated by... Toby Jenkins: Okay, I just want to take this opportunity to tell you connect some dots, Scott Goodpaster. He and I had ended up in a confirmation class at St Jerome's and he was very well read and he knew I was kind of newly out and he said, well, you need to read the Gay classics. And so he gave me a whole list of books that I needed to read that were at the Tulsa Library, like Giovanni's Room. You know several of those books. Barry Hensley: That's so cool. Toby Jenkins: and I would come out with a stack of books like that. Barry Hensley: That's the idea. Toby Jenkins: He had a list of movies, so I'd check the movies out. That's great, all right, anything. So this is. It's getting very lengthy, but it's just so good we're finding out anything else you want to tell us. Barry Hensley: I want to talk about when Terry started going to College Hill Presbyterian Church over here by TU. So he was working in the Finance and Revenue Department with Gary Watts and Gary said: this is 1994, same year, very exciting year. And Gary said: you sing, don't you Terry? He said well, yeah, he hadn't sung really since he'd been back here in Tulsa, but he'd grown up singing and been in the Turtle Creek Chorale. And Gary said: well, my little church needs some tenors if you'd like to come audition us. Terry Baxter: Well, that's not how he said it. He said: if you'd like to come visit and see. And so I actually went to audition. I wanted to hear if it was a real organ- and it was a real pipe organ. And I wanted to hear what the choir sounded like, because I didn't want to lend my voice to a ragtag. And it was a small choir but they sounded great- still do, �30 amazingly- and so I started going there to sing- not anything to do with it being church, really, but to have a singing outlet to go to. They just so happened to have a party two weeks after I first went there, and so the choir director invited me to the party, and it later came out at the party because she and I went into my car and were talking that she was gay and had a girlfriend. But the girlfriend was married and it was just one of those type things. But after they became girlfriend and girlfriend, the lady and her husband stayed at College Hill. Nobody chose sides, it was just: oh well, I guess she finally found herself. But everybody was that way and I felt for the first time in my life that it was a group of people who didn't think you had to reconcile being gay with being a Christian. Toby Jenkins: And who would have been the minister at the time was Radford in there. Terry Baxter: Radford was the next called minister. David Caldwell was there. It was his last day as minister when I went that first time and then we had the interim pastor and that's the one that asked me: how do I reconcile being gay with being a Christian? And I told him that you don't need to reconcile. That, which I think was an odd answer, that he did not expect, that there's no reconciliation necessary. Toby Jenkins: Very profound. Barry Hensley: So Terry had suggested that I start coming to College Hill. I didn't want to do that. From my experience at First Pres- I didn't have an organized religion at all. But I went and the people were so genuine and so open, friendly and outgoing and welcoming. I thought, is this a cult or something, because I'm not used to this sort of organized religion at all. And turns out they are just great, great people. And it also turned out that there were several refugees from First Prez and my mom's generation. She had, I think there were three ladies that she had known back in the early 50s. They were all in the mariners class together when they were all newlyweds back in the Eisenhower era, and so she started coming as well. So it became this really nice, nice place that is wonderful… Terry Baxter: And your brother David started coming. Barry Hensley: David started coming. It was just wonderful… It's a wonderful place and you're able to have a traditional sort of service experience that I was used to from when I've been a kid, but built around this welcoming environment, it's just a really neat little place. So I want to get College Hill a shout out. Mary Bishop-Baldwin. And having an openly gay minister. Barry Hensley: That's correct. Terry Baxter: Yeah, we actually suggested to him that he talked to you guys. Yeah, let's hope he does. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, he just retired. Todd Freeman. Yeah, yeah, he's gonna stay in Tulsa. �31 Barry Hensley: Yes, for at least for right now. Toby Jenkins: He's traveling all over the world. So you would have been there, because I think, wasn't it under Radford that they became a More Light congregation. [More Light is a network of Presbyterian churches which are open and affirming for the LGBTQ+ community.] Barry Hensley: Yeah, Terry was a part of that. Toby Jenkins: Talk about that a little bit. Terry Baxter: Well, there was a discerning process going on and and I was not on session, which is a governing body in the Presbyterian Church at that time, but a friend of ours, Margaret Watson, Margaret Duncan at the time was- was on it and they, they just decided that the Presbyterian Church in Tulsa needed to have an open and outward exposure. To contrast, Kirk of the Hills and First Prez. First Prez has always been kind of the don't ask, don't tell type. Seems like it's gotten worse since they got their new pastor. But Kirk of the Hills, you know, when the Presbyterian Church ultimately decided that it was okay to ordain gays and and that kind of stuff, Kirk of the Hills just [left]. Not to speak bad of the Presbyterian Church. But the Presbytery gave them a good deal when they let them keep their building. Toby Jenkins: Well, it required a lawsuit… Terry Baxter: But the church actually won and they still turned around and allowed them to purchase it for a million dollars. Even though the church won the lawsuit and could have retained the property, as is in the Presbyterian bylaws, the presbytery was nice and said: give us a million dollars, we'll let you go and be whoever you want to be, and- and that's probably the Christian thing to do- but for people who are hoping to make strides in improving the acceptability of gay people. You don't want people like that to win, you want them to suffer a loss. Who knows, the church ultimately won because they're not part of it and so those people can be away. Then we called Radford Rader, who, initially, was instrumental in pushing for the More Light stuff to continue, even though he had done his associate work and youth pastor work at Kirk of the Hills, which is kind of interesting. So even Radford's position had moved and grown and he became instrumental as a straight man, pushing for college to become More Light and accepting. Actually, when we got married, we asked him if he would do the service and he said: well, you know, the denomination is still officially not agreeing with the right of gay people to have a commitment ceremony, and, and I could lose my retirement pension fund if I did that, even though it was in Canada. Barry Hensley: That was in 2005. We decided to go to Canada. We never dreamed it would happen here, but thanks to you [Mary Bishop-Baldwin], other people like you. So we ended up married in Canada, yes, but so he and we became More Light. The Session which is a, I said before the governing body. They've always been. When prohibition came, they were always not for prohibition. What was the next? �32 Terry Baxter: They were very anxious for women to be able to vote. In World War II they would, the members of the church, would take in the international Asian students who were being harassed at TU because of their heritage, and the Japanese. Barry Hensley: If you looked Asian. Terry Baxter: Yeah, if your eyes were not like our eyes. Barry Hensley: And they were behind, they were the first, my understanding is, they were the first church in Tulsa to have an integrated membership, that there was a black family that moved in in the 1950s that became members. And then the gay rights stuff, and they've just been on the right side of every one of these topics. It's a wonderful, wonderful place. Toby Jenkins: So after Radford they called Todd Freeman, and he has been there... Barry Hensley: He was there 18 years. Terry Baxter: Yeah, Todd, I was, I was on session and actually on the pastor nominating committee when we called Todd. It was kind of interesting story because we just could not find the right person, could not find the right person. And Todd hadn't even applied for the job. He was in Dallas at a church there. And we reposted it in all the Presbyterian outlets, I guess you call it, so that in order to get new applicants, because we just had not been able to find anybody that fit what we thought we needed. And a friend of his convinced him, because they saw that new posting, said this church is still looking for somebody, maybe you should apply for it. And he did, and he ended up being the successful applicant. I mean, the first time he came here, interestingly enough, at one of those More Light groupings where his church and we were also at one campsite together. Some of us had met him, didn't remember we had met him until we saw him. But he could preach a sermon, he could minister to people, and he wasn't stupid. He was intelligent. And so he just fit perfectly. And the average length of time for a pastor in a Presbyterian church is eight years, and he was there 18 years. So it was a good fit. It's gonna be hard to find somebody who… Barry Hensley: And unlike so many small churches, the membership is growing. It's not declining, and so many... Terry Baxter: And it's not going up by getting refugees from other churches, it's young. Toby Jenkins: You have several prominent community leaders, and I will say on record that that was the beautiful thing about Reverend Todd Freeman. He was such a good community collaborator. He worked with the interfaith community, he worked on social issues, he worked on issues that would expand services to marginalized communities. He was a very good fit for Tulsa, what we needed at that time. Terry Baxter: And if he does what he says he's gonna do, he's gonna continue doing that. He wants to do more of that, and being a pastor of a church sometimes gets in the way of doing more of that. So he just, I think he also wanted to retire so he wouldn't �33 have to be preaching all our funerals. Because so many of his friends are his age level or more. Toby Jenkins: I'll say this one more about him, then I have some questions about Terry at the City. During the marriage equality fight, which was a 10-year long journey from the time that Mary and Sharon and Gay and Sue filed their lawsuit, we were trying to educate our community and help people understand it better because there was such a religious objection component to it. Reverend Freeman and dozens of other clergy persons were so vital to us because we were able to get them to make statements, write articles that we could then get media publications so that they knew that it wasn't just all churches, all Christian congregations saw this one way. And when we got marriage equality and Tulsa World had their huge front page, there was First Presbyterian, their thoughts on it, me representing the organization of Oklahomans for Equality, and another, Asbury United Methodist, their pastors, conservatives. They had me sandwiched in an Oreo, and then whoever was there decided they needed to get another reflection from religious community. So Todd Freeman, so it went from me being stuck in the middle to it was two to one. He gave a religious perspective on it, and I was always so grateful. Because we had trouble finding, at that point, I mean, United Methodists were not decided on it, the Episcopal Church was still trying to decide. Terry Baxter: And the Presbyterians hadn't decided on it then. When they finally did decide on it, he came out in the newspaper. Toby Jenkins: Anything else in your notes, Barry, that you feel like it's important that we cover? Because then I want to talk to Terry a little bit about, do you feel like we've... Barry Hensley: I'm good. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Well, I want to ask about your marriage. You say it was 2005, is that right? Barry Hensley: January. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: You went to Canada to get legally married there. When had marriage equality become the law in Canada? Barry Hensley: Not too long before that, I don't think. Terry Baxter: I think it was about three years. Barry Hensley: Yeah, just a few years. Terry Baxter: But it was interesting that when we went, you had to go to the capital of the province that you were getting married in to get the license first. So we went to Vancouver first to get the license. And we didn't know our way around Vancouver. And so we went in a drugstore and said, where's the Marriage License Bureau? And they �34 said, go down the street. They didn't just tell us, go down the street. Oh, you're getting married? Oh, how wonderful. And it was... Barry Hensley: So cool. Terry Baxter: Then we went and he said, are we going in the right direction? And another person says, oh yeah, you're going in the right direction. And every place we went, the people were saying thank you for visiting us and congratulations. And it was so contrary to what it was like in the United States where everybody was, if they were anything... Toby Jenkins: A lot of protesters. Barry Hensley: Don't ask, don't tell. If they were supportive of you, it would just keep quiet. And we even went to a liquor store and they said... Toby Jenkins: So what year, what month would you have gotten married? Terry Baxter: January. Barry Hensley: And we went from Vancouver to Victoria. Beautiful little 1912 bed and breakfast in Victoria. And they were so nice. The couple that lived there, husband and wife, have since split up, I think. But they arranged everything. They arranged the marriage commissioner. They arranged the flowers. They arranged an after party. They arranged everything for us. It was just a wonderful experience. And we had just a handful of people. We had three friends from Tulsa. Tom Neal was one of them who came to our wedding. Very small. Dennis Neill: And I think maybe right before you all got married, two other individuals from Tulsa went there and got married in Vancouver and ended up living there permanently. Barry Hensley: Oh man, what a dream that would have been. Dennis Neill: And do you remember them? Were they an inspiration for your decision to go to Vancouver? Terry Baxter: Barry, we decided we wanted to do it and Barry got online to start looking at places. Barry Hensley: So where in Canada in January? Terry Baxter: Yeah, where is it warm in January? And we realized, well, on the coast there. Barry Hensley: That's right. Terry Baxter: It's warm in January. I mean, there were hummingbirds there in January. Barry Hensley: Oh, it's so beautiful. I just love it so much. Terry Baxter: So it was basically decided, where could we go in January in Canada to get married? And we had always wanted to pick a place that would be some place we could remember. And that's why we actually went to Victoria Island. �35 Toby Jenkins: Since 2005, you’d been together 25 years. Terry Baxter: We figured we knew each other well enough by then to get married. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Why was it important to you to have your marriage, your relationship legally recognized somewhere, even if it wouldn't be recognized… Terry Baxter: I think the main reason was at that time, we were hearing more and more about people who are having medical situations in hospitals where their partner, longtime partner, wasn't able to be involved in decisions or even visit them in some places. And we had gone through all sorts of hoops. Barry Hensley: We spent thousands of dollars making sure that we had all the documentation we needed to protect ourselves. Terry Baxter: Even though you have that stuff, there's just assumptions if you're married that are made by people that you're gonna have 15 pages of documentation. But if you have a marriage license, it's just instant proof. And interestingly, I mean, I'm glad we got married in Canada because if the United States changes things and wants to retroactively do away with that, like they are with the people who have changed their sex on their birth certificates, they can't undo the sovereign act of the government of Canada. So the Supreme Court can do all they want to and we're still married. Barry Hensley: But the Defense of Marriage Act had just been a big thing at that time. And so we really realized that it wasn't gonna be in the United States for some time to come, which was fine. Terry Baxter: We were surprised, but. Barry Hensley: Oh, we were so pleasantly surprised. Toby Jenkins: Terry, what would you like to tell us about working in municipal government in the city of Tulsa? Terry Baxter: Working for the government in the city of Tulsa was very interesting. One of the best things about the city is people don't look at the city or any government job for that matter as very opportunity filled. The pay is lower than in the private sector. A month after I got hired, a private company offered to hire me, and I told the people at the city what they were going to hire me for, and my boss actually went to the city commission at the time and asked for special personnel action to raise my salary to what the people were going to pay in order to keep me. So that was pretty good. But you have opportunity because the city's involved in so many different things, and so is the federal government. I think that's one thing that our current administration didn't realize when they got into office is that there are professional people doing professional jobs that you have no idea what they're doing, and they've got backgrounds to fit those jobs, and you can't just put somebody in there and hope it gets done right. But the other thing that does is if you're working for the city, you have the opportunity to move around to different jobs. �36 I always, and maybe it was part of how you protect yourself when you're growing up if you're gay, is you learn more about everything than most other people do, so they can't question your knowledge. And so even though I was working in the finance department when I first started, I learned about all the other departments, what they did, how they did it, how they interfaced with each other. If you remember at that time in 1985, 86, personal computers were first being introduced into the workplace, and people were still smoking in the workplace, so all those beige personal computers quickly became yellow from the cigarette smoke. But I started learning more about the personal computers and going more in-depth, not just how to use them as a software user, but how they work. Toby Jenkins: Did you take classes or study the manuals? Terry Baxter: I took some classes. Most of it was self-study and getting in there and just doing it. Barry Hensley: I had my own IT guy who was great. Terry Baxter: We had just installed a point-of-sale system right after, not too long after I got there. So all the cashiers, instead of writing paper receipts and then going to the key punch people to put into the computer, they would actually transact it through the computer. And it was written in a strange form of basic, not visual basic, just basic. And so I kind of learned how to program so that we could, if we needed to be able to issue a different kind of license, I could do the programming instead of hiring people to come in and do it from outside. So I kind of learned that, was in the finance department supervising the licensing area, which meant making sure that taxicab drivers were licensed and insured and all that kind of stuff. And I have an interesting little story. One year when a new taxicab company was trying to get a license in town, I explained to them what the rules were. And so he went away and then he came back two weeks later and said, I need to get that license. And I said, well, where's your certificate of insurance? So one of my positions was regulating taxi cabs, and this is a quick story. But this man wanted to start a new taxi cab, he needed a certificate of insurance. And for some reason he couldn't get one. He came to my office and started taking money out and setting it on the table, said, how much is it going to take for me to get my certificate of convenience and necessity? He kept putting these stacks of $20 bills in the bands on the table. I said, you don't have enough money. Just go use that money and get yourself some insurance and you'll get approved. And so as soon as he left the office with his money, I called the police department and talked to their legal person and he says, well, you should have taken the money. I said, why? And they said, well, he can't be guilty of, we can't find him guilty of trying to bribe you if we have no evidence. And I said, yes, but if I took the money, I would have been guilty of accepting a bribe and he could have gotten me in trouble for that more than you could get him in trouble. So it �37 just didn't make any sense to me that you had to have, the proof was that you did it. But how could I not, how could I do it and not be guilty of doing it? Toby Jenkins: So in that capacity, you actually had people who tried to persuade y'all or they tried to bribe you. To persuade you or pressure them to get their permits? Terry Baxter: Yeah, and because you couldn't do business without the city license. You know, a restaurant couldn't do business without a city license. Toby Jenkins: And you couldn't sell liquor at the Pride event, unless the city said so. Terry Baxter: One of the other interesting things was that, so then they created the Revenue Collections and Enforcement Division, and I was the first administrator of that division, and it was created because the state was not doing a good job of collecting city sales tax. The city got the state statutes and it said, and there was no reason in our agreement with the Tax Commission that we couldn't also collect our taxes. We couldn't tell them they can't collect it, but we could make an effort to get them to pay it to them for them to collect it. I started being the person sending letters out and visiting places that were in arrears on their city sales taxes. It was an interesting job, but I couldn't talk about it with anybody because, you know, there were a lot of restaurants people really loved to go to that we'd end up going out of business because I put them out of business. So I won't tell you who they were, but let's just say some of the favorite restaurants in the mid-80s that suddenly quit business because they weren't paying their sales taxes. And the same with hotel and lodging taxes. Hotels and motels collect a tax from the people who stay there, and it's collected on behalf of the city, and the entity gets to remit the money to the city and keep part of it if they do it in a timely manner. And there was a particular hotel that didn't do that, and that particular hotel operator had a brother who was a bigwig in Tulsa education circles who called the mayor. And so the mayor called me and asked me, have I done everything I could to make sure that that guy has opportunities? And I said, I've done everything I can under the ordinance. Are you asking me to see if there's another way to do it? And the mayor at the time said, no, I just want to make sure. But I got the feeling that he was trying to convince me to look the other way for a while. But it's interesting. So you have some interesting things in the city government. And then the reorganization of the government came around, and it became a city council form instead of a city commission form. And so the Finance and Revenue Department was merged into the Treasury Department under the Finance Director. The Treasury Manager, she and I just, we were really good friends until I worked for her, and then all of a sudden I was some kind of threat. I seem to have that pattern with female bosses. They're afraid of me. And maybe it's because of the discrimination they get in the workplace. When a guy comes up and is below their position but is really good at what they do, they're going back to thinking, well, that person's going to take my job away from me because that always happens when a man and a woman come up competing against each other. �38 Well, I don't think it always happens. I was a gay man, but I didn't have a sign on me. So I went from there to the Fire Department in their IT area, and my job at first was making sure all the fire houses were connected through a very obscure form of CO land, which was a central office land that AT&T offered that nobody bought. And so they basically gave it to the fire departments to use for free because we didn't have network connections between the fire department buildings. And then I went to 9-1-1 and got a new computer dispatch system put in. 2000 came in, and we stayed up. Everybody had their hands on deck at 9-1-1, and most of the calls we got were people calling, I just want to see if 9-1-1 worked. Toby Jenkins: So just so our viewers will understand, it was Y2K. Explain that. Terry Baxter: Y2K, people who wrote computer programs never anticipated that they would have to have a four-year date field. When it became 99, it'd go back to 00 the next year instead of 2000, and computers would go crazy because then all of a sudden you're back a hundred years from where you were just yesterday. And so every computer application had to be changed to have a four-year date for the year instead of a two-year date. And 9-1-1 was a fairly old system, especially in Tulsa, because we were one of the first places that actually had digital 9-1-1 services. And so we had to go back and work with AT&T and the vendors to fix all those computers. Everybody was expecting the sky to fall when 2000 rolled over from 1999. Barry Hensley: So Terry's down there at the office, they're all waiting to see what's going to happen. They're all sitting at home, are the lights going to go off, you know, what's going to happen? Toby Jenkins: This was real anxiety. Terry Baxter: It was, it was. Toby Jenkins: We thought planes might fall out of the sky. Terry Baxter: A lot of money was spent fixing things in anticipation of that so it wouldn't happen. And I guess it was money well spent because the sky didn't fall. And the next day we didn't go back 100 years. We've gone back 100 years in other ways now. But it wasn't for year 2000. And then, so then I was there for a while. And then another reorganization came under Mayor Taylor where she took all the IT areas and moved them into one centralized IT department. I got moved out of the 9-1-1 public safety communications into IT and became a project manager there in IT projects. And then I went to the mayor's review group, performance review group, for a year. And then back to 9-1-1 as director for a year. Because it got taken away from IT but not put into police or fire because they were competing for it. And so the mayor made it a separate entity and I was over there for that one-year period. And then he just decided to put it over into the police department where it still is. Then I went back to IT as the manager of the project management group and that's when I retired. So I was involved in a lot of different areas. And I take that as they gave �39 me the opportunity to be involved in those areas because the city requires jobs to be posted internally before they go externally. And if a qualified applicant applies for it then they're not required to accept that applicant, but they're strongly encouraged to give that applicant the opportunity to succeed or fail in that position. So much so that they have a policy that for the first 90 days, actually you're on probation for a year, but for the first 90 days it's kind of like no fault. The other department, if they backfill your position and you're not successful in the one you went to, you can actually go back to your old position. So usually there's a vacancy for 90 days. Toby Jenkins: So let me ask this for our viewers. So you're working in civil service, basically municipal civil service. Every time a new mayor came in, did the people that worked for the city of Tulsa, were they afraid they would be fired because the new mayor can... Terry Baxter: The new mayor has influence over civil service positions and the new mayor hires whoever they want for their own office. But the civil service protections have policies in place that they just can't fire you to be firing you for no cause. Toby Jenkins: Why is that critical, Terry? Terry Baxter: That is critical because if you did that and you fired for no cause and you cleaned out everything every time a new mayor came in, the expertise that is necessary to do the day-to-day stuff that citizens expect to have done, I just cannot imagine if a new water commissioner got in and they fired everybody, then how would our water get, the chemicals get adjusted appropriately because all the chemists were gone. People don't realize how many professional people there are in any government, city, county, state, federal government. You can't just run it like a business because the business is so diverse. You have to have people with expertise in all those different kinds of business. You can have a business philosophy. You can be overarching, we want to make sure that we're efficient, but to just say efficiency is to get rid of half the people and then don't even pick the people you get rid of. You could get rid of half the people in a lot of departments, but you better spend some time evaluating which people are the half that you get rid of because some of them you can't do without. It's an interesting thing. Politics is very interesting. I think the civil service part of politics, of government, keeps politics from basically throwing the baby away with the bath water every time a new elected official comes in. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, it's such a dangerous thing for elected officials to be able to gut an entire community, a nation, a state. Terry Baxter: And it's also difficult for the citizens, because if you don't have consistency between things that occur politically, then your life is less certain, and you don't know, you know, everybody's life is kind of up in the air about what's going to be happening and how you're going to be accomplishing the goals and objectives of the people who elected the people in the first place. �40 It's very unfortunate that it's almost like the public needs to have an education on how government is supposed to work, and then start assessing, can we make it better, rather than just saying, oh, government is just a waste, there's too many of it, too much of it, let's chop off half of it and see what happens. And it's frustrating, because people don't get the things that they need to have. I would hate it if the police department lost half the police force, because who knows if it would lose the right half. Toby Jenkins: Right. What year did you retire from the city of Tulsa? Terry Baxter: 2017. Toby Jenkins: 2017. How many mayors did you work for and city council? Terry Baxter: Worked for seven mayors. Some not very long, some longer. I mean, who remembers Mayor Crawford? He came from out of town, and as soon as he was not mayor any longer, he left. Let's see, the first was Terry Young, all the way back to the 84. I wasn't working there in 84 when the flood came, but I was in Tulsa the night it happened. Toby Jenkins: The Memorial Day flood, Memorial Weekend flood. Terry Baxter: The big flood before we had stormwater detention ponds. And that was under the county, out of the commission form of government at the time. The commission worked real hard to cooperate with each other to get the Department of Stormwater Management created out of people from streets, out of people from water and sewer, so that they could start figuring out how to control the damage that the floods in Tulsa did. Barry Hensley: They were professionals, they knew what they were doing, and it worked. Terry Baxter: And if they had done it in a political way, we may not have the safety that we have now from floods and storms, because it would never have happened, because the politics would have kept people from working with each other. Toby Jenkins: So you would have been in the city in 2010 when we passed the ordinance where you could not be discriminated against because of your sexual orientation. I'm just curious, prior to that ordinance and after the ordinance, was there a different temperament at City Hall? Did more people feel... Terry Baxter: Well, interestingly, the ordinance got passed a couple years after the city actually put that in the employees' anti-discrimination stuff. So the HR department and the mayor at the time were progressive enough to put that in the policies. And I know of a couple cases where before that was in the city's policy, and in both cases, the person who felt discriminated against because they were different prevailed with the Civil Service Commission. So even the Civil Service Commission was... It's interesting what you have in the government. We had a person actually transition from being male to female while they were in their job at the city, and they retained their job at the city while they were through that whole process. And it was very difficult at that time because some people were very �41 discriminatory toward that person. The person needed to have a restroom to use, and nobody wanted them to use their restroom. And so the mayor said, well, she can come use my restroom. Toby Jenkins: Do you remember what mayor that was? Terry Baxter: Kathy Taylor, when she first got elected, which was interesting. After the transition occurred, life still is not simple for that person, because people will be people. And he, she, afterwards, he, before, and since he was there as a he and a she, depending upon who you're talking about, it depends upon whether he was a he or she was a she. But, you know, she had courage to go. I cannot imagine going through that process in the same position, in the same job. And ultimately, she relocated to a different city, because her marriage didn't stick, even though at first they were trying to make it work. And so it was, it was a very interesting thing. But the point of that was, is the city realized that their employees needed some protection, and so they built that in the policy. And then later, the city council decided, hey, maybe we need to have that kind of protection in the city. Toby Jenkins: Y'all would have gone through that same thing at the library, because I remember when... I remember when you got ready to hire the new director, I can't remember his name right now, Gary. Barry Hensley: Gary. Toby Jenkins: That was one of the requirements he had, wasn't it? Barry Hensley: Well, years before, I'm talking about 1990 or so, Mike Williams, who was the head of the circulation department at that time, I was in the InterLibrary Loan, we went to Pat Woodrum, lovely lady, because there were no protections at all at that time, and we just were asking to slip sexual orientation into the policies, because we weren't under the city or the county's jurisdiction. We were our own thing, you know. It would just need to go through the Library Commission to get changed, and she wasn't ready to do that at that time. She said, well, are you all having a... is there a problem? You know, is there an issue I need to be aware of? And we said, no, we're just kind of trying to prevent an issue from happening, and she wasn't ready to do it at that time. I don't remember when it actually went in, but it was kind of a non-event by then. Toby Jenkins: Terry, anything else about your time at the city? And you mentioned you saw a transgender individual who had a kind of a rough time and experienced some harassment. Did you ever feel that you were targeted? Did you ever feel like you were impacted by people who knew about your private life and maybe were just being discriminatory? And did you witness any of that? Terry Baxter: I don't know if I was lucky or just... I never had that personally. I did witness it in other departments. It's, you know, one of the things about the city is it's got blue-collar jobs and it's got white-collar jobs, and I always was in a white-collar job. And maybe there's less discriminatory action in that atmosphere than in the blue-collar job, �42 but I knew of a couple of individuals in Water and Sewer that were discriminated against and overlooked for promotions. And that was one of the other reasons that HR, I guess, was interesting because the change in the city's policy was started by HR, not by an external force. So they just realized that, and probably realized after there had been a couple instances where people had filed complaints with the Civil Service Commission and those complaints were upheld, that they were indeed discriminated against for things that had nothing to do with a job, that there needed to be a policy so that they wouldn't have to have hearings. Toby Jenkins: Let me ask you just your perspective, having worked for the city, understanding how government works, municipal government, why have we had so much trouble with the City of Tulsa getting counselors and mayors to push forward an ordinance where for the city you cannot discriminate against people in the public spaces, in public accommodations, where businesses, because this was an issue I raised repeatedly, we took them stories repeatedly with multiple city councilors, multiple mayors to say that people in our community would be denied services at businesses. Everything from restaurant supply businesses, to hotels, toTerry Baxter: Well, the reason is called politics. It's because elected officials do what they perceive the people who elected them expect them to do. And in Tulsa, and in Oklahoma, and apparently, quite many places in this United States, there are people who can't see past the end of their nose, who are in positions of authority. And what they perceive may be a misrepresentation of what their electorate wishes them to do. But it's been going on forever. A friend of Barry's, the one that he was talking about earlier, Barry knew a person who was working for the city before we even were working here. And they would go to hotels and try to rent a room. And an African American person would go to a hotel to rent a room and they wouldn't do it. So then she asked one of Barry's friends and another friend of hers to go and be obviously gay and try to rent a room, and they would rent a room. So that's been going on since a lot… Barry Hensley: That's 1979 or 80, something like that. Terry Baxter: It's just people, and people who don't think they have to, who feel that they have been given permission by their religion, by their government, they decide not to support people who don't believe the same way they do. Barry Hensley: Apparently, empathy is a bad word these days, and I can't quite comprehend that. I can't wrap my head around that. Terry Baxter: We had a friend of mine who worked with me at the city say that you can't have empathy for someone unless you are exactly that kind of person. So you cannot have empathy for a minority unless you are that minority. And that's contrary to the whole definition of what empathy is, but apparently a lot of people believe that. You can't have empathy for me because you aren't me. Barry Hensley: And- You don't know what my struggle has been.. It's very strange. �43 Toby Jenkins: Anything else about your time at the city of Tulsa, and anything else you feel like you want to include in our time today? Terry Baxter: No, I'm just glad that there are those people in this world who still want to push forward and not go backward. And we hope to be part of that, but we're old folks now. So I'm lucky. I'm happy to see what a lot of the younger people are doing, that they're picking up the mantle and not letting the right wing take the charge. It's good. Toby Jenkins: Anything you would like to say to the generation coming after us or people who see this interview, maybe in 100 years when somebodyBarry Hensley: I just hope they can comprehend what people have gone through to get to the point where we are, and that life is too short to go through all of this drama of preventing other people from living their lives. I will never comprehend why that would be so important to me. I don't care what you do, as long as it's not illegal. But I think we've just been very fortunate. I know I have, my entire life, it has fallen into place. Finding Terry, getting the job, having such a good fit, inheriting my parents' house, all of this, being able to retire and travel. And life has just given me every possible break it could, and I don't understand it. There's no strategy on my part. I don't know how it happens, but I'm very grateful for it. And thank you all for recording the histories of so many people while you can. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Our pleasure. Terry Baxter: We're all different, but we're all trying to struggle to survive and help each other survive. That's the important thing. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: And it's our honor to be able to talk to people like you and tell your stories. Barry Hensley: This has been quite an honor for us. Dennis Neill: Wonderful. Thank you for sharing your story and your 46 years together. Barry Hensley: We'll have a big party at 50, I can tell you that. Toby Jenkins: This is June 30th, 2026. Today, Dennis Neill, Mary Bishop-Baldwin, Toby Jenkins, have had the pleasure here at Oklahomans for Equality, the History Project, to interview Terry Baxter and Barry Hensley. Thank you for your service to the citizens of Tulsa County. Thank you for your service to our community and for being such good examples of we're here and we're queer, so get used to it. Terry Baxter: Happy Pride. Barry Hensley: Back at you. Thank you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Series] Oral Histories Project > Interviews Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br />Box 7, Folder 7 - Dr. Leisa Meyer Program<br />Box 7, Folder 8 - Interviewees Materials, Original Series 2003-2007<br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Terry Baxter and Barry Hensley Interview Subject The topic of the resource Terry Baxter and Barry Hensley Oral History Project Interview from June 30, 2026 Description An account of the resource This episode features a conversation with two long-time partners from Tulsa, Oklahoma, sharing their life stories, experiences with the LGBTQ+ community, and insights into the history of gay life in Texas and Oklahoma. Discover their journey through love, family rejection, activism, and resilience. In this episode, Terry Baxter and Barry Hensley share their experiences with LGBTQ+ advocacy, their careers in public service, and personal stories of love and resilience. Discover how their efforts have shaped community acceptance and the importance of authenticity. Interview conducted by Toby Jenkins on June 30, 2026, transcribed by Dennis Neill on July 10, 2026. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Barry Hensley, Terry Baxter, Toby Jenkins, Dennis Neill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 30, 2026; July 10, 2026 2026 activism AIDS AIDS/HIV Barry Hensley coming out community Dennis Neill Diversity family Gay Rights HIV/AIDs LGBT history marriage equality OKEQ Oral History Project Oklahoma oral history oral history interview Oral History Project oral history transcript photo photos Pride Terry Baxter Toby Jenkins transcript Tulsa https://history.okeq.org/files/original/e3ff2b8f65c8e1e3de1d74ab390108aa.mp4 c1c2cd0375b1a8c1a8d0bd09106aefcf https://history.okeq.org/files/original/869364a7ec5981ab97ce337a29a3f94a.mp4 2ce277f4237ec76749d504df88ee8d47 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/c6f9949e0d787542f8fe6baf68845b51.mp4 ee6c751d9089300d5ba09cd997a28631 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/8475404578d2c887ca2ae103c2552080.mp4 9f9ae60be9132394fbf76b48b543edc8 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/034a7b0b7908edcb03f429560a7cb98b.mp4 57834c8e35ccc67bf400fd6cb2313711 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/bd426cf660dc59a3249f230a5c507e02.mp4 e38b2e398c8ec9c957567aa7fb36689d https://history.okeq.org/files/original/0bca4ab8f89a29c34b29a767f52597b1.mp4 374ce5b668fc8b02c35d19e282c50547 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/1556d58cfbb728b3faf80b5de7c494a4.mp4 854f6b1be4715ea2994c87ad99eef958 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/1b5486c4e06a4875205a5d4ce3a42cf5.mp4 a3a32dfdd9896784b4f357662ea9228c https://history.okeq.org/files/original/37bb783d4e90678b2ce0b866a9b13d1f.mp4 c96362993b00a7c2432c0f77c5e6fc33 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/fe61f8f6ccc80c2c040d09d9f2f80aa3.mp4 5bb5f0cf65e286517bde867c1da171f6 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/41e69874b821c29c270c415dc8ad5735.mp4 12adc9a298ea7a7aa6f33fc4644a85b1 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/72eb9dac89e93167313d70193e770d85.mp4 eaa336371589007b5a5c8471a2ca81a0 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/4ce044a9de6b354ae0a5dec03c38a0ce.mp4 2f801b1f5850e712dd7de71379b7fccf https://history.okeq.org/files/original/a24b6acf371d6a2ddf5c32454c4c67ff.mp4 94b869189bb092f2acae9be45440588a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [c. 1998-2001] Silver Star Pageant Videos https://history.okeq.org/files/original/dea5687994523c956c6878299c4cdbdd.pdf 1cd60c6a28dd7281d0d3dd2aa563452c PDF Text Text Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 1 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ CULTURE How a Tulsa TV anchor-turned-theater director became America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ by Haley Samsel June 23, 2026 Travis Guillory in his midtown Tulsa home drag room surrounded by his collection of gowns and other items for his works as Tracy La Louisianne. Tim Landes Have aCredit: question or a/ Tulsa tip? Flyer Text us. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 2 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ The country’s reigning Miss Gay America — a title she sometimes playfully refers to as “the president of drag” — doesn’t live in a Los Angeles mansion or a New York City walkup. She calls midtown Tulsa home. Travis Guillory is the last person to predict he would be standing among the dozens of shimmering costumes, wigs and crowns required to transform into Tracy La Louisianne, who he describes as “Travis on steroids.” A former local TV anchor and current executive director of Theatre Tulsa, Guillory’s drag career began less than four years ago. Now he’s fielding requests from America’s Got Talent producers who watched Tracy earn the national title in January. “I’m not kidding when I say my life literally changed overnight,” Guillory said. Have a question or a tip? Text us. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 3 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ Tracy La Louisianne was crowned Miss Gay America 2026 in January. Credit: Courtesy Tracy La Louisianne / Miss Gay America ‘Proved every single one of us wrong’ Guillory’s journey to winning the country’s longest-running and largest drag pageant wasn’t linear. Originally from southern Louisiana, he moved to Tulsa in 2017 to work for 2 News Oklahoma. The longtime performer and director quickly became involved in the local theater scene. That’s where Tracy was born. Guillory was cast as seasoned drag queen Miss Tracy Mills in World Stage Theatre Company’s 2021 production of “The Legend of Georgia McBride.” The role required him to take a “crash course” on drag performance and culture. The University of Tulsa’s HallowQueens show came calling soon after. First, though, Guillory needed a name. “I looked up Louisiana cocktails and I found ‘La Louisianne,’ which is basically a New Orleans version of a Manhattan, my favorite drink,” he said. “It just stuck.” Alongside a career shift to public relations, Guillory began performing one-woman cabarets with Oklahomans for Equality and expanding Tracy’s repertoire. Her persona is inspired by the largerthan-life female leads Guillory grew up watching in Broadway musicals. Think Mrs. Lovett from “Sweeney Todd” or Miss Hannigan from “Annie.” “I get to be what my younger self always wanted to be,” Guillory said. The act caught the attention of the then-reigning Miss Gay Oklahoma, who encouraged Guillory to condense the cabaret into a six-minute routine and enter a pageant. The contest follows a similar format to the Miss America competition, featuring an on-stage Q&A, judges interview, evening gown and talent showcase. Travis Guillory in his home drag room in his midtown Tulsa home. Have a question or a tip? Text us. Over time he began to see each element of the Credit: Tim Landes / Tulsa Flyer 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 4 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ score as a chance to do what he does best: communicate, think on his feet and embody Tracy’s theatrical personality. “You don’t have to fit the mold. You have to be the mold,” Guillory said. “It’s not like you’re trying to show up with what people expect Miss Gay America to be and look like. You show up the way you do your art at a very high level, and that’s Miss Gay America that year.” When he met Guillory in Tracy’s early days, Tulsan Ryan Bennett was already an established drag artist performing as Natalia Masters. Guillory was always talented, Bennett said, but a bit hesitant to lean “into his shtick” as a ball of energy on and off the stage. That’s no longer the case. “The one thing that I have seen him grow in is actually just his self confidence as an entertainer,” said Bennett, now one of Guillory’s best friends and collaborators. “There were so many people that told him that the direction that he was going wouldn’t get him very far, and he just proved every single one of us wrong in the best way possible.” The weight of the crown By the time she headed to Little Rock for the national competition in January, Tracy had already racked up honors like Miss Gay Oklahoma and Miss Gay Gulf Coast. In the days prior, Theatre Tulsa company director Mandy Gross and Guillory began discussing what it would look like if Guillory returned with the title. “I think Tracy knew that she was going to win, but Travis didn’t think that he was going to win,” Gross said. Many peers are in the pageant system for years before reaching the big stage. But Tracy pulled out all the stops — walking the stage in a gator costume holding a detached head and earning audience roars during her cabaret, which forced judges to pick their own adventure — and stole the show in her second national competition. Have a question or a tip? Text us. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 5 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ Part of Tracy’s pitch was her ability to build a brand and lead the Miss Gay America organization through an ownership transition and moving its national competition to Atlanta. “I can put on a nice gown and a nice wig and do all of these things. I can figure out the aesthetic,” Guillory said. “But it’s more of what’s in somebody’s heart and what’s in somebody’s brain that actually makes them a successful Miss Gay America.” The crown can weigh heavily on the head that wears it. Bennett describes the duties as “grueling,” requiring weeks of travel to lead contestant orientations and judge briefings at competitions across the country in addition to performing and promoting gigs. Many winners quit their day jobs to complete their reigns. Not Guillory. He and Gross have worked together to ensure he can still give his energy to Theatre Tulsa, which he took over in summer 2024, and keep shows running smoothly. “You know how people are left-brained or right-brained? He’s got both,” Gross said. “He is really great at the creative stuff, and really great at scheduling and being organized and the stuff that super creative people usually aren’t. I don’t know where he gets that from, and I don’t know where he gets all the energy to do it.” Bennett has watched Guillory weather the highs and lows that come with pursuing a burgeoning drag career and keeping up with responsibilities at home. He has a community of supporters, including his partner and fellow drag performer Kallaya, who understand the pressure. Have a question or a tip? Text us. It also comes down to feeling the emotions in the moment and not letting them overtake you, Bennett said. When Guillory needs to cry or scream, he lets it out. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 6 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ “He’s a superstar in that,” Bennett said. “He knows when it is appropriate to let loose and be vulnerable, and he knows when it’s time to put your big girl panties on and be professional, be the administrator and do the job of being Miss Gay America.” Have a question or a tip? Text us. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 7 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ ‘We just want to exist’ Five months after returning from Little Rock, Guillory is still navigating his new reality. He’s embracing the flood of new opportunities — potential residency in Puerto Vallarta, anyone? — while still appreciating what Tulsa has to offer as an affordable home base for regular gigs in Arkansas and Missouri. He’s passionate about growing the city’s arts scene and says he’s never had a reason to leave. “I’ve lived three lifetimes in Tulsa and I’m on my fourth one now,” Guillory said. He’s not sure where life will take him by the time his reign ends in January. For now, he’s focused on a full calendar of gigs and the mission in front of him: representing Oklahoma on the national stage and serving as a beacon of hope for those feeling targeted by anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. “We just want to exist,” Guillory said. “When people see Miss Gay America, they need to see somebody who’s just existing to the f–king fullest.” News decisions at the Tulsa Flyer are made independently of our board members and financial supporters. Read more about our editorial independence policy here. Have a question or a tip? Text us. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Collection] Oklahoma LGBT+ History Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br /><br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Travis Guillory Tulsa Flyer Article Subject The topic of the resource How a Tulsa TV anchor-turned-theater director became America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ Description An account of the resource 1 article written by Haley Samsel from Tulsa Flyer regarding Travis Guillory's winning of the Miss Gay America title as Tracy La Louisianne. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Haley Samsel Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Tulsa Flyer Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 23, 2026 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/914a0a5d5cb38506eefbb720a230fed1.jpg a9fcdcfe015ffac99079c771fa20ee6b https://history.okeq.org/files/original/f0fd9c3e465c454796f5af97da81bc9b.jpg 6bffe8058f921370e79a9c1e586050f6 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/6b2ffab42157492b2e5d4f9ef280df60.jpg ebdb024fc0a0d148084f44c553fed0b1 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/48dd0df2b9e9c3b568347f8452509afc.jpg df29616c229b8cb3e85bf66c579a3a90 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/4170ace04ce0c6368b93cdb132bce6bc.jpg 3299b853d201053ee0c086c6dc2a562f https://history.okeq.org/files/original/5a0004122c2107dccfba5a9e5dc80b07.pdf a5febfa4dab3754ced873f9140f82ad5 PDF Text Text Oklahomans for Equality History Project For many years in June, which is LGBTQ Pride month, Tulsa’s downtown streets and parks were awash in a rainbow of colors with a sea of the beautiful diversity of humanity assembled for Tulsa Pride. But it wasn’t always that way. Think about a time when Pride didn’t exist – a time when many of you weren’t yet born but when a large number of our LGBTQ community WERE here, trying to live in a world that didn’t acknowledge their humanity. LGBTQ people existed, but pride did not. Being gay or trans meant living in the closet for fear of losing one’s family, job, religious affiliation and home and being ostracized – and even jailed or institutionalized – for living openly. Beyond those outward realities, LGBTQ people often were self-loathing, longing to change their sexual orientation or gender identity so they could fit in with society and live in accordance with what society said their God demanded. But throughout history, some gay and trans people have stood up to challenge the status quo and say, “We’re OK just as we are.” Accepting ourselves was the beginning of Pride. �Oklahomans for Equality’s forerunner organization, Oklahomans for Human Rights, was organized in Tulsa as a chapter of an Oklahoma City-based organization in 1980, and a handful of Tulsa’s gay men and lesbians came together in 1982 to organize and produce Tulsa’s first Gay Pride Week. In its May 26, 1982, newsletter, available in the OkEq History Project archives, OHR called it “Tulsa’s first major commemoration of the beginning of gay liberation,” the Stonewall riots of 1969. Events included a picnic and festival at Chandler Park; softball games at Manion Park; beer busts at local bars Tulsa County Mining Co., Tracy’s New Edition, Tim’s Playroom and Zippers; a screening of the “Rocky Horror Picture Show” at the Brook Theater; Gay Day at Discoveryland; Gayskate at the Rinky Dink Skating Rink in Sand Springs; and a benefit drag show. The next year’s Pride Week Picnic, held at Mohawk Park, drew about 300 people, according to OHR’s July 1983 newsletter. Records in Oklahomans for Equality’s archives show that the 1983 Gay Pride Week Committee’s total income was $1,910.66, while expenses totaled $1,473.83, bringing the organization a $436.83 profit. �Those early Tulsa Pride events didn’t involve parades and were relatively low-key events in out-of-the-way locations. In contrast, it costs anywhere from $150,000 to $200,000 to put on today’s Pride events. OHR became TOHR in 1985, when local activists formed the nonprofit Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights and separated from the Oklahoma City organization. The annual picnics continued, and it seemed that perhaps greater visibility and even acceptance had come to Tulsa Pride in 1994 when then-Mayor Susan Savage proclaimed the week of June 19 through June 25 that year “as Gay & Lesbian Pride Week in our city.” Tulsa’s first Pride march came in 1997. Without closing the roads, marchers traveled one-half mile on Edison Street from Gilcrease Museum Road to Owen Park, where a picnic was held. Participants also listened to music, and community organizations and businesses offered information and merchandise at booths. The second Pride march, in 1998, saw about 150 people march from 15th and Main streets to Veterans �Park (now Dream Keepers Park) at 21st Street and Boulder Avenue. The 1999 event was the first parade that involved street closings and police escorts. Tulsa’s first Pride parade went from 38th Street and Peoria Avenue in the Brookside District to 31st Street, then west to Riverside Drive, and then north to Veterans Park. With the political and social environments of the times, it took Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights quite some doing to acquire a permit for the parade. The Tulsa City Council delayed a vote on the permit twice before finally approving it. In the meantime, one councilor, Sam Roop, had proposed and then dropped a resolution stating that the City Council did not endorse the June 12 parade. The Tulsa World reported that Roop had been concerned that approval of the parade permit “might be construed as an endorsement of the ‘gay pride agenda.’” In the end, he joined the other councilors in unanimously approving the permit – but not the “lifestyle.” Tulsa World archives record that Councilor Darla Hall said that "the gay community is not before this council tonight so that we can stand in judgment of �their lifestyle. They will appear before God for that, just as we all will answer to God for our lifestyles. I only pray they are as prepared for that day as they are for the parade.” But with the parades came increased visibility. The keynote speaker at a gala hosted by Tulsa Oklahomans for Equality and the Cimarron Alliance, as well as the grand marshal of the first Pride parade, was U.S. Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, who brought with him increased media coverage of Tulsa Pride. Big names were also included in the next year’s Pride, which showcased as gala speakers and co-grand marshals Olympic diver Greg Louganis and Col. Grethe Cammermeyer, who had successfully challenged her dismissal from the Army for being a lesbian and who later worked for the repeal of the military’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy. That same year, 2000, the Rev. Dr. Mel White, founder of Soul Force and author of “Stranger at the Gate,” spoke at the Tulsa Pride Week Interfaith Service. Activities related to Pride were growing in number, too, with film festivals, book discussions, high school gay-straight alliance showcases, Council Oak Men’s Chorale performances, PFLAG parents panel �discussions, art shows and a NAMES Project AIDS memorial quilt display included along with a parade and festival during Pride Weeks by the early years of the 21st century. By 2001, the parade route had shifted to Cherry Street, with step-off at 15th Street and Utica Avenue and the conclusion again at Veterans Park. Archives show that the annual parade continued along that route until 2009, when it ran through the Arts District and ended at the Diversity Festival’s new location at Centennial Park (now Veterans Park), at Sixth Street and Peoria Avenue. During those years, paradegoers mixed with athletes and the crowd watching Tulsa Tough bicycle races in the Arts District. TOHR changed its name to Oklahomans for Equality in 2006 in advance of the opening of the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center – OkEq’s permanent home – in February 2007, and in 2011, the festival was moved to Fourth Street – Pride Street – and Kenosha Avenue in front of the Equality Center. In 2014, the parade route shifted to start at Boston Avenue United Methodist Church, 13th Street and Boston Avenue, still ending at the Equality Center. The �annual Rainbow Run’s inaugural year, with a 5K race and a 1K fun run, was 2014. The timing of Tulsa’s Pride parade and festival changed in 2024 to October to avoid the extreme heat of Oklahoma’s summers and to coincide with LGBTQ History Month and National Coming Out Day, Oct. 11. The Equality Gala and other events still take place in June. Inclusion and acceptance have grown along with Pride, with some push and pull, advancements and backlash, along the way. This year’s events this fall are expected to draw nearly 70 parade entries, with a crowd size along the parade route estimated at 10,000 and attendees at the Pride festival projected at 26,000. The Oklahomans for Equality History Project encourages you to learn more about OkEq’s history by visiting our online archives at history.okeq.org. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] History of Tulsa Pride Subject The topic of the resource Tulsa Pride history Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mary Bishop-Baldwin Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 23, 2026 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright (c) 2026 Oklahomans for Equality Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Description An account of the resource 5 pictures and 1 article regarding the history of Tulsa Pride celebrations. https://history.okeq.org/files/original/4adebf0d44994d369d09f3575feec61d.jpg ad72637811113670aa330f4ea33f8595 https://history.okeq.org/files/original/7c2883bf7ed6d734cf5f7159d6a5724f.jpg 0667fe995ad8830d0ee5454a0496092b https://history.okeq.org/files/original/27c6287171392a77018730fd0c5c30fc.pdf 7e2c30bad114e57670a3f5c51112bb2d PDF Text Text The Oklahomans for Equality History Project remembers with pride the U.S. Supreme Court opinions handed down on June 26 in various years that made monumental strides in the quest for equality for LGBTQ people. We think June 26 should be National Equality Day! ●​ On June 26, 2003, the Supreme Court struck down state sodomy laws across the nation in Lawrence v. Texas. ●​ On June 26, 2013, the Supreme Court killed the Defense of Marriage Act in U.S. v. Windsor AND overturned Prop 8 in California. ●​ On June 26, 2015, the Supreme Court made marriage equality the law of the land in Obergefell v. Hodges. ●​ On June 26, 2017, the Supreme Court ruled that all states must provide married same-sex couples the same "constellation of benefits" and recognition afforded to heterosexual couples. The OkEq History Project’s archives remind us of how Tulsa acknowledged all those cases and rulings. June 26, 2003 The Spring 2003 edition of the TOHR Torch, the publication of Oklahomans for Equality’s forerunner, Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights, noted that Oklahoma was one of only four states that still specifically criminalized same-sex sodomy at that time. The others were Texas, Kansas and Missouri. The Arkansas Supreme Court had overturned that state’s same-sex sodomy law the previous year. The U.S. Supreme Court was expected to issue a ruling in Lawrence v. Texas in June, and an article in the Spring 2003 Torch announced that Lee Taft, Lambda Legal regional director in Dallas, was to discuss the case at Fellowship Congregational United Church of Christ in Tulsa on April 14. Lambda Legal had represented the two defendants in a criminal sodomy case and led the case through appeals. “Battling for years in the Texas courts, we sought to overturn the criminal convictions (which made the two men registerable ‘sex offenders’ in several states) and to have Texas’s law declared unconstitutional,” Lambda says on its website. “When the highest court in Texas eventually refused to even hear our arguments, we convinced the U.S. Supreme Court to take the case. In a stunning victory, the highest court in the land found the “Homosexual Conduct” law unconstitutional and established, for the first time, that lesbians and gay men share the same fundamental liberty right to private sexual intimacy with another adult that heterosexuals have.” The ruling overturned the June 30, 1986, precedent of Bowers v. Hardwick, in which the U.S. Supreme Court had ruled that states had the right to criminalize sodomy on the grounds of public morality. �The TOHR Torch noted that “sodomy laws (were) used to justify discrimination against lesbians and gay men … in every day life; they’re invoked in denying employment to gay people, in refusing custody or visitation for gay parents, and even in intimidating gay people out of exercising their free speech rights.” The Lawrence ruling set the stage for later advances in the struggle for equal rights under the law, with each case building on those that had come before. The Summer 2003 TOHR Torch included an article from the History Project outlining the history of sodomy laws, with a focus on Oklahoma, where in 1890 the pre-statehood territory’s Legislature had codified its sodomy law with a penalty of up to 10 years in prison. The relevant statute, Title 21, Section 21-886, refers to the crime as “the detestable and abominable crime against nature.” State courts made consensual heterosexual sodomy legal in 1986 but retained the right to prosecute consensual homosexual conduct. That Summer 2003 article noted that “Oklahoma’s law has become legal justification for firing gay and lesbian teachers, administrators and school personnel, nursing home workers and others. These Oklahomans and other gays and lesbians are therefore required to choose between their livelihoods and their ability to be open about who they are. As a result, gays and lesbians in Oklahoma are deterred from seeking political and social change.” With repercussions like those, it’s no wonder so many gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Oklahomans continued to live in the closet. The Lawrence ruling made it possible for many to come out of the shadows and was a major building block for the legal victories that came later. June 26, 2013 Ten years later, two huge advances in the quest for marriage equality came out of the U.S. Supreme Court on June 26, 2013. The July 3, 2013, OkEq eNews reported that on the evening of Wednesday, June 26, 2013, more than 400 celebrants gathered at a Decision Day Rally at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center to celebrate that morning’s Supreme Court rulings on both the Defense of Marriage Act and Proposition 8, making same-sex marriage legal in California again. The group heard from attorney and OkEq board member Mike Redman and the plaintiffs in the Oklahoma marriage equality lawsuit, Mary Bishop & Sharon Baldwin and Sue Barton & Gay Phillips. “There was a champagne toast and a fabulous wedding cake from Merritt's Bakery,” the article says. The eNews article shares photos from the Decision Day Rally. �Oklahomans for Equality Board of Directors President Angela Sivadon, center, and her now-wife, Mary Robinson, serve wedding cake to the crowd at the Decision Day rally in 2013. The overturning of DOMA meant that the United States government would recognize any marriage – including same-sex marriages – recognized by any state. It did not, however, force states to recognize same-sex marriages. That fight was left for other cases, but, like Lawrence v. Texas, United States v. Windsor was a fundamental building block for those that followed. In California, the nation’s largest state, marriages of same-sex couples had been legal since June 17, 2008, after a May 15 ruling by that state’s Supreme Court. But a group of people, known as the proponents of Prop 8, gathered enough signatures to put Proposition 8, a proposed state constitutional amendment, on the ballot. Prop 8 was to define marriage as between only a man and a woman and to stop the same-sex marriages. When they went to the polls on Nov. 4, 2008, more than 13 million Californians voted 52% to 48% in favor of the state question. No more same-sex marriages were allowed – at least for the time being – but about 18,000 had already been solemnized. The resulting amendment was challenged in court in Hollingsworth v. �Perry, and on June 26, 2013, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the proponents, who defended the constitutional amendment after the state of California refused to do so, did not have standing – or the legal right – to defend the case. Therefore, the Aug. 4, 2010, ruling of U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker that Prop 8 violated the U.S. Constitution was upheld. Same-sex marriages began again in California on June 28, 2013. June 26, 2015 Marriage equality was achieved for all the land on June 26, 2015, when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Obergefell v. Hodges that marriage is a fundamental right that is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution to everyone, including same-sex couples. Oklahoma had achieved marriage equality through the courts a year earlier, but all the states that still did not have marriage equality were required at that time to authorize and recognize marriages of same-sex couples. Oklahomans for Equality proclaimed in its June 30, 2015, eNews that “at long last, there is no such thing as ‘gay marriage’ – now it's just MARRIAGE!” The eNews article shares photos from the Marriage Equality Celebration Rally that OkEq held at the Equality Center that evening. Attendees at the Marriage Equality Celebration Rally on June 26, 2015 – the day the U.S. Supreme Court made marriage equality the law of the land in the Obergefell case – give attorneys Don Holladay and Joe Thai, front left, a standing ovation. Holladay and Thai, along with attorneys James Warner III and Jeffrey Fisher, represented the plaintiffs in the Oklahoma marriage equality lawsuit, which they had won the year before. June 26, 2017 �The U.S. Supreme Court followed up exactly two years later with a ruling that clarified for states that didn’t yet get it what it had meant by marriage equality in 2015. Its ruling in Pavan v. Smith would establish that all states must provide married same-sex couples with the same benefits and recognition they afford to heterosexual couples. The plaintiffs were two legally married Arkansas same-sex couples, the Jacobses and the Pavans, who had conceived children through anonymous sperm donation. The state refused to list the wives of the birth mothers as co-parents on the children’s birth certificates, citing a state law. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the law was “inconsistent” with its Obergefell ruling. “When an opposite-sex couple conceives a child by way of anonymous sperm donation – just as the petitioners did here – state law requires the placement of the birth mother’s husband on the child’s birth certificate. … And that is so even though (as the State concedes) the husband “is definitively not the biological father” in those circumstances. … Arkansas may not, consistent with Obergefell, deny married same-sex couples that recognition,” the Supreme Court wrote in its decision. The Oklahomans for Equality History Project encourages you to learn more about OkEq’s history and the history of our rights by visiting our online archives at history.okeq.org. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] June 26 Supreme Court Rulings Subject The topic of the resource LGBTQ civil rights cases Description An account of the resource 2 photos and 1 article regarding the very consequential U.S. Supreme Court decisions handed down on June 26 in various years that furthered LGBTQ rights. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mary Bishop-Baldwin Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Oklahomans for Equality History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 26, 2026 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright (c) 2026 Oklahomans for Equality Angela Sivadon birth certificates co-parents Defense of Marriage Act DOMA don holladay Gay Phillips Joe Thai Lawrence v. Texas marriage equality mary bishop Mary Robinson Obergefell Pavan v. Smith Prop 8 sharon baldwin sodomy Sue Barton Windsor